411.3.3 (b)


Postby kbrownie » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:25 am

Hi, this may have been touched on before but please forgive me for my ignorance. If it was I never spotted it and can't be bothered going through all the threads.

411.3.3 (b) Does this reg mean I can designate a plug or several plugs around my or a property and correctly labelled for the indivisual use of either an electrical lawnmower, strimer, hedge cutter or even TV then take them outside to use without RCD protection? or have i not got the gist of it!
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Postby RowanMook » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:32 pm

The reg. is for your sockets the other way arround :)
You label them Fridge, freezer etc, so people DONT plug in extension leads to take outside.
Its for plug in equipment on the manufactorers supplied lenght lead and plug, thats why they are moulded plastic and cant be removed.
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Postby ericmark » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:02 pm

Not a lawn mower (see (ii) (b) only applies to (i)) but fridge, freezer, hot plate, oven, etc. It is for where either loss of supply will cause danger or when the item has high earth leakage. It would be up to you under 134.1.1 to ensure it is safe to use that item without an RCD. Basically it allows for where plug and socket arrangement is used for isolation or maintenance so for example behind the oven so it can be removed for maintenance. I would agree as written you could extend this to near every semi-fixed item like TV etc. But then extra sockets would need to be provided i.e. four sockets one for hair drier, one for curlers, one for lady shave and one for Carman roles etc. You could not use same socket for two items. Not really much benefit and of course all the cables to these sockets either surface or with one of the special cables. So I can’t see the proviso being used much.

All best Eric

Edited after another post appeared.
For people viewing this post. Please remember we are both sparks discussing the technicality’s of the new regulations we are not suggesting what we are saying should be done. More in fact to the contrary we are looking for ways to tell customers what can’t be done.

Seeing RowanMook post I realise how on lookers can easy miss the point of what we are saying. I have a pair of snips I can remove plugs!!!!

Although looking again at (b) I suppose running a ring main in flexishield to supply computers, TV’s, Videos, Fridges i.e. everything with switch mode power supplies or where loss could cause big problems is not such a bad idea! It would have been allowed in 16th Edition as they would not be likely to be used outside. But as yet I have not seen the price of flexishield and I don’t fancy surface wiring. And where we have wires under floor boards and trunking down the wall how will we know if it is 50mm from floor and ceiling.

All best Eric
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Postby sparx » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:52 pm

hi, this reg was brought in to allow for peoples concerns where a freezer on a circuit covered by an RCD might defrost if circuit tripped whilst they are out.
A load of b#ll#cks IMHO as any decent freezer if kept shut should not start to defrost for 24hrs. so unless on holiday not a prob. & most sensible people run down contents when going away & house insurance usually covers it anyway.
It does say "A specific labeled socket outlet" not socket outletS.
I can't understand folks reluctance to fit RCD's mine have been in place for 35years & tested regularly, never "nuisance trip" but do trip if I do something silly in workshop say & thank heaven for that!!!
Don't forget that to run such a socket under 17th regs would mean it going on a seperate circuit with mechanical protection or surface run, or be more than 50mm deep in safe zones, is it worth it???
regards SPARX
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Postby kbrownie » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:32 pm

Thanks for all replys,
seemed a regulation that was open to abuse. I understand the advatages as far as nuisance tripping from high earth leakage and was happy to read your thoughts on the matter but I think it should be better explained and most probally will, when first amendments are made.
regards
KB
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