am i having the wool pulled over my eyes? new boiler


Postby steve bain » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:51 pm

i had a new combi fitted with 6 rads. i have concerns that i am being done over by the plumber so i thought i would ask a few questions.

background.
3 storey house. new ravenheat (85T? i think from toolstation) fitted to 1st floor (middle one). i asked for the pipework to go immediately up the 2nd floor, round the rads, down on other side of house, through rads on 1st floor and stop. at some point the ground floor is getting converted and will get added onto the system in the future. so in my mind the water makes a nice spiral from top to bottom.

1. what the plumber did was go from boiler across first floor rads, then up to 2nd floor. so how the hell do we extend into ground floor in future. the plumber said to t-piece at the boiler (one side to 1st and 2nd, other to ground floor) which went against his own advice of a nice spiral.

2. the flue produdes out of my external wall approx 400mm and looks stupid. he said it helps to clear the eaves. but there a storey higher! is he just trying to cut corners?

3. it doesn't seem to produce much heat in the HW on the 2nd floor. on the 1st floor its nice and hot though. any ideas? plumber says its the raise in height makes it loose pressure and heat. i shower with hot tap on only which seems a bit rubbish for a brand new combi (i do appreciate it is a cheap combi though but it does go against the statistics given with the boiler)

The work he did took 2-3 days (i fitted rads and boiler to wall, cut flue hole etc) he ran the pipes and connected gas, flue pipe etc.

i supplied the materials and he's charging me £600 for labour. does this sound ok?
He has done a very messy job, hacking through floor boards with no care. i am having to go around and redo alot of it, straightening pipes, fitting clips etc. i even had to bleed the system!

he is coming back to fit the final rad and flush and treat the system but if he needs to change it i want to make sure i have my info correct first.

any advice or help appreciated. i am currently very dissapointed. but maybe my expectations were too high?
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Postby Pasha » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:39 pm

Hi in response to your question they seem to charge what they like and you can decide if you want to pay it or not. I recently got a quote to replace the boiler and 3 rads with trv's the price was £2700. He told me it was a days work after I deducted the price of the materials, it work out the labour came in at £1400, for 1 days work. I'm all for safety where gas is concerned but I'm afraid all the new regulation have given corgie/gas safe engineers a licence to print money. He didn't get the job needless to say, I've done all the rad work replaced the valves, pumps and will get someone else to change the boiler. I'm self employed but if I tried to charged such greedy prices I'd have gone out of business years ago. Pasha
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Postby geezah » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:29 pm

I was quoted £2,000 for a boiler swap out, boiler flue and fittings, at the absolute outside can't come to anymore than £1,000, so that leaves £1,000 + for labour for a job that will take between 2 and 3 hours at the most.

You can guess what I told him to do. Problem is, he doesn't give a flying fiddle because he knows that there will be another person desperate for a new boiler asap in this weather. 'Oh allright mate just get it sorted'. Well, not this time!
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Postby steve bain » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:56 am

he wants £900 for the work which is basically fitting pipes. saving of £100, but he used £150 of my copper!! heres a few pics of the quality of finish to inspire you. what annoys me is if he said it would be a hack job then i wouldn't mind, but it is the way he banged on about being careful etc. and he hasn't done half the stuff we agreed either.

he hasn't fitted drains to the rad circuits, flue sticks out a mile! he chipped my cast iron bath in 4 places, he wrecked loads of floor boards, didn't insulate pipes as agreed, didn't move the mains stop cock as agreed, no thermostat! and now says it was never in the price, didn't plumb in washing machine or bathroom, as agreed. it goes on....

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/stevebain/DSCN0077.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/stevebain/DSCN0079.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/stevebain/DSCN0080.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/stevebain/DSCN0085.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/stevebain/DSCN0086.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/stevebain/DSCN0081.jpg[/IMG]

but he did get us heating as promised. am i being harsh? is this how plumbers normally do it?
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Postby htg engineer » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:22 pm

Don't pay until you're happy, the flue should not stick out far enough to look 'stupid' and as you say no-where near gutter etc etc

Hacking through floorboards ? so ask him to replace them. Or replace them yourself and deduct the cost from his payment.

He should have flushed the system and added inhibitors before the system was used, if he just filled the system all the flux and copper filings will now be sitting in the new boiler.

Ask him to pay for the bath, if he's a company he'll have insurance.

Tell him to plumb in washing machine, move stop tap, and insulate pipes.


Ask him about the boiler interlock, he needs to fit a thermostat to comply with regs.

Is he an RGI ? Gas Safe registered, if so why did you hang the boiler ?

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Postby steve bain » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:44 pm

thanks for the advice
he is gas safe registered.
i hung the boiler already as i wanted to work out its location so i could plan my kitchen. he said it seemed pointless to take it down and put it up again so thats how that was done.

the flue protudes 400mm and is on the second floor of a 3 storey house it looks really stupid.

floorboards are unfortunately pitch pine so are fairly hard to come by and costly, can't just pop down B&Q which is why i gave him instruction not to cut them under any circumstances!!

[quote]He should have flushed the system and added inhibitors before the system was used, if he just filled the system all the flux and copper filings will now be sitting in the new boiler. [/quote]

that doesn't sound good. i don't think he did this! can it be fixed or is it pretty terminal for the boiler?

[quote]Ask him about the boiler interlock, he needs to fit a thermostat to comply with regs.[/quote]

what does this mean? he said i'll just have to fit the room thermostat myself as the boiler has a built in thermostat so he doesn't need to do it.

[quote]Tell him to plumb in washing machine, move stop tap, and insulate pipes. [/quote]

agree.

tbh i think i just needed someone to say i wasn't being unreasonable about pulling him up on these things.

thanks for your help all.

Steve
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Postby htg engineer » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:38 pm

Boiler interlock is not a physical device but an arrangement of the system controls (room thermostats, programmable room thermostats, cylinder thermostats, programmers and time switches) so as to ensure that the boiler does not fire when there is no demand for heat. In a system with a combi boiler it can be achieved by fitting a room thermostat. TRVs alone are not sufficient for boiler interlock.

To comply with regs he does need to do it. When he fills in the paperwork for registering the boiler, he WILL put that he has fitted a room thermostat.


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Postby steve bain » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:21 pm

just thought i'd let you guys now that when the ceiling in my lounge started dripping i went to investigate. nearly all connections to one radiator were more or less finger tight and was leaking!! i've tightened up 3 other connections which were leaking already. i ha to fude it a bit. i would ave drained it down and fixed it, but no drains fitted! i spoke to plumber and he said to fudge it and he would fix on thursday and doublecheck all connections. was done by his apprentice 'apparently'. no excuse in my mind. he should double cheack any apprentices work. especially when he's only 2 months in!!

how does this guy stay in buisness!!

he's coming over thursday to finish the work off and to have a chat about bits to finish off.
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Postby Dawson666 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:17 pm

your right the flue looks stupid..it only needs to be about an inch from the wall (show him the boiler manual its got all flue dimensions there). If he cant be bothered to fit that proporley then tell him to f off :P
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Postby nishnish » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:06 pm

Aren't those holes in the joists in violation of the building regs?
They are supposed to be in the centre?
That double hole near the bottom of the joist, looks like an accident waiting to happen. The bottom, where the joist is in tension, is the worst place to drill.
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