Boiler in bedroom/ Ideal Isar HE30 / Warm Front


Postby JoW » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:50 pm

I qualify for a new gas boiler installation under the Warm Front scheme and the survey was done today. I have been told that the only place the boiler can go is in a small bedroom which I now use as a study but one day may use as a bedroom.

I would have preferred to have the boiler situated in an outhouse but was told that the length of pipe from the meter to the boiler may be too long and result in a loss of pressure (although he did not actually measure this).

The survey has left me with some questions -

1) What are your thoughts on gas boilers being situated in bedrooms - safety/noise?

2) Is there anywhere I can find the formula used to calculate the loss of pressure per metre or bend in pipework?

3) I would love to have your experiences or thoughts on the Ideal Isar HE 30 boiler (I have heard bad reviews) or the Warm Front `experience' in general.

Under the Warm Front scheme I cannot use an installer that I trust, I have to use one which is unknown to me and as I know nothing about central heating I feel quite vunerable to `being ripped off'. I am disabled and at present have a very old but very reliable boiler. I do not want to find that I have removed this and installed a nightmare!

I would be very grateful for any thoughts or advice.
JoW
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Postby htg engineer » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:45 pm

Combi boilers are safe installed in bedrooms as they are room sealed appliances, meaning the fumes and air intake are both direct to outside. And the boiler and flue are completely sealed from the internal environment. Also they have safety devices fitted, incase there was a problem with the flue etc.

Saying that the gas run would be too long and the pressure would suffer may be correct, but all they have to do is run a larger diameter gas pipe to the boiler.

If you want it in the outhouse tell them, and they'll have to do the calculations to ensure the pressure is adequate. It might make the installation more difficult or time taking, but it can be done.
htg engineer
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Postby JoW » Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:13 pm

Thanks for your reply, htg engineer. It is very useful and much appreciated.

Another issue which arose after the survey was that they propose to run the pipe from the meter to the boiler around the outside of my house. I know gas does not freeze but surely the elements will take a toll on the metal. Is this often done?

I also realised this morning that the proposed route for the pipe from meter to boiler in bedroom (which is where they want to install the boiler) is longer that the route from the meter to the boiler if it was situated in the outhouse, with the same amount of bends. So much for their objections on Friday.

I will have to speak to them again and every bit of info anyone can give me, [u]especially if you have an Ideal Isar HE30 boiler[/u], will be of great help. It may be better for me to use my trusted installer, get a better boiler and forget the grant, although it would annoy me to lose it. Thanks
JoW
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:03 pm


Postby htg engineer » Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:38 pm

Get the grant and boiler, you can always have to boiler moved at a later date if you're not happy. Gas pipes are ok on outside walls, depending on where you live, are they likely to be vandalised/damaged ?
htg engineer
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Postby JoW » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:35 am

Thanks again. Yes, the company that I would have used had it not been grant work told me to get the grant and the boiler and change it at a later date but unfortunately I am locked in a battle with the Warm Front installer who seems determined not to put the boiler in the outhouse - although he cannot give me one valid reason why it cannot go in there. He wants to install it in a very small bedroom and I am equally determined that it is not going there.

His latest ploy was to tell me that the run from the meter would be too long but he shot himself in the foot when he told me the route he proposes to take to the bedroom - it is much longer than the run to the outhouse. I did not realise that until after he had left so it will be yet another phone call to him tomorrow.

I can't go ahead with the grant work until I get the boiler installed where I want it. Then at least, as you say, I will have the pipework and radiators installed under the grant even if it costs me the price of a new boiler.

I really appreciate your replies as I feel as though I am banging my head against a brick wall with this company.
JoW
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:03 pm


Postby muzza » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:32 pm

Be careful here, Eaga ran the scheme in Scotland until they were bascially sacked and the contract handed to Scottish Gas.

I have been very busy rectifying problems with their installations (mainly on the oil side, gas is generally safe but not pretty) and have been shocked at the poor standard of work and service given to some of the most vulnerable people. Its a big scheme which has lofty ideals but is almost impossible to administrate. It falls into the old category of you get what you pay for.
muzza
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Postby JoW » Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:32 pm

Thanks Muzza. From my dealings with Warm Front and particularly this installer I have come to the same conclusion as you. When I told a plumber friend of mine that I was applying for the grant he just kept saying "Don't do it, just don't do it".

My gut feeling is to cut and run. After all the problems of the two surveys which the installer has done so far, I have to ask myself "Do I really want this company to install my heating?"

The first `surveyor' actually told me he did not like his job and wished he had never taken it!! By the end of the survey I wished that also.
JoW
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Postby The Heating Doctor » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:55 am

What ever you do, do not let them install an Isar, One year warranty is a joke, when there are other cheaper boilers with up to a 5 year warranty
The Heating Doctor
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Postby JoW » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:14 pm

I have given in with Warm Front. The installer was determined to put the boiler in a bedroom and I could only have an Isar so I have cancelled the work. It is annoying to lose a grant of £2700 but the company running the grant scheme don't seem to care if there is a problem with the installer. All I can get out of them is, "We leave it to the installer".

It is the old adage - You get what you pay for.
JoW
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Postby pepsi » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:47 pm

all they want to do is throw them as fast as they can the excuses are lame contact them and ask for a supervisor if your going to put up with exposed pipes there should be some compromise dont give up
pepsi
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Postby ozburt » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:42 pm

Hi there!

I wish I had seen your posts as I could have advised you.

My sister had a Warm Front gront to install central heating & gas in her home which previously had storage heaters. It works like a dream.

Now I have recently bought a new home and qualified for the Warm Front grant. It has been a long & frustrating process but I am finally getting what I wanted. I got in touch last April and the survey was done in June/July.

Because I like to ask questions & want to know all the options & exactly what I am getting they probably think I am difficult as opposed to other people who just accept what they are given.

Anyway Warm Front informed me that I could request what I wanted but it had to be done through the installer. They also said that I could change installer even though they may prove more expensive and the process would take longer. Anyway after the survey which I wasn't entirely happy with I decided to get other quotes & a second opinion.

Because I have a small house, space is at a premium one of the other quotes highlighted the fact that I could have the boiler placed in the loft although it would cost more. This was in contrast to the installer's warm front survey which had gone for the cheapest & simplest option - they are legally obliged to do this & it is up to you to request things even though it will cost more so you have to be prepared to pay the excess.

So they had to redo the quote & I was quoted an excess. Now I queried the choice of boiler & discovered it was an Ideal Isar HE30 so I did some further research. Which magazine gave it a poor review & looking at the others recommended by Which I contacted Warm Front again & was told I had to go through the installer. So I did this and they agreed (end Nov) & would do a requote.

I have now had a letter from Warm Front with the new figure which I have again queried as it's higher. But I have learnt they get the Ideal boilers at rock bottom prices so it is no longer an issue. I have gone for a Baxi Duotec 28HE which has the best buy rating by Which. After all you pay for what you get & the £2700 grant certainly does help.

My boiler is going in the loft, I'm getting what I wanted even though I have to pay an excess.

Basically if you are not happy ask to have a new installer - tell them it's not in their interestd to lose you as a customer & that you will advise WF you want to change installers if they are not prepared to accommodate you.

Also I got a list of installers for my area from WF after much persuasion (I think I have it somewhere) and used this to shop around (Iguana were one example) & told the installers what I wanted.

In the end I have got there, now it's just a matter of paying the excess & arrnging for the installers to do the work, which I have yet to do. It's now January - it's been a long process, but stay determined & take advantage of the £2700, p[ateince pays off in the long run. It took my sister 9-12 months for all hers to be sorted out from start to finish - date she applied to when the work is completed.

Hang in there & good luck.
ozburt
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Postby hayley » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:38 am

Oh god beware.At our old property we had a oil boiler installed in the loft,bad move as we was always having the engineer our to fix it as being in the loft it is pumping hard to get the oil up hill.On his last visit to repair it before we moved he said he would not come out to this boiler again as its against regs,health and safety to have to service/repair a boiler from a ladder,and it had to be done on a ladder as the boiler parts are on the outside of the wall.
We have now been given a £4000 grant from warmfront for oil heating ,its all moved very quick ,in a metter of a few weeks,but again with limited space/outer walls we face the same problem.The 1st quote was £5742.63.This was as he said we could not have it indoors so the boiler had to go on the patio and we needed a special oil tank as it was going near to a hedge.In this quote hubby said we would lay the slabs for the tank and boiler to reduce the £400 EACH per base they wanted to charge.We had to pay the additional £1950.08,work that out as it dont even add up as £5742.62 minus £4000 grant dont make £1950.08
We phoned to say we dont want the boiler on the patio as they wanted such a huge base it would be huge and ugly so they rushed out within 2 days to survey again.We have had the chimney removed and said can it go in the kitchen now,of course he replied and said it would work out cheaper and the flue or whatever would have to go out the roof as it could not go onto the drive.Everything agreed we was happy it was the best and only option.We got a Quote today of £6702.13,we have to pay £3023.81,again their sums dont add up and the quote for a cheape rboiler has now put our bill up over £1000
We qualify for the grant as we are on a low income so how do they think we can pay £3000 although we do need heating as our last winter electric bill for our 3 bed small bungalow was £750.
This is such a con as no way should a new oil heating systen for a 3 bed bungalow cost £6702.13 ,and they only allow 6 radiators so we have to pay for one in the bathroom and cant have one in the hall
I will complain monday as the instalation company are trying to rip us off,they nearly got away at £2000 as we was going to borrow the money to get it done but after today taking it all in why should we be told they are helping us when actually the only people being helped is the instalation firm and its time companys like this are stopped
Please anyone reading this help us with your feedback as i am sure we are only a couple of people who are up against peoblems like this
hayley
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Postby hayley » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:39 am

sorry in my last email it might have sounded like i was saying the grant was a con.I did not mean the grant i mean the companys who get the work as they are taking advantage and charging over the top for cheap work
hayley
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Postby roger196 » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:40 pm

If you are not happy with the Warm Front scheme, see/ write to your MP. At a brief glance, they seem a waste of public money which should be bought to the attention of our politicians.
roger196
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Postby simple » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:45 pm

oh dear were do i start !!!!

im an heating engineer on the EAGA and WARMFRONT scheme and i agree with you all its pants!

I wouldnt let these companys near my home they have no respect to you or your property.

As for oil boilers dont bother at alll the mess we leave about is horendous


upto you !!! :roll:
simple
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:41 pm


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