COLD WATER SYSTEM-UNABLE TO TRACE LEAK


Postby billpater » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:46 am

THANKYOU MR HEATING ENGINEER - YOU HAVE RELIEVED MY WORRIES, I THINK !!!!!!! - I DID WONDER IF IT COULD JUST BE THE SOUND FROM THE MAINS SUPPLY PIPE OUT IN THE STREET - BUT COULD NEVER GET ANYONE TO CONFIRM THAT. i DID SORT OF PROVE TO MYSELF THAT THERE WAS NO LEAK --- LAST NIGHT I SHUT OFF THE WATER AT NIGHT BEFORE I WENT TO BED AND WHEN I GOT UP THIS MORNING THERE WAS STILL A SMALL RUN OF WATER OUT OF BOTH THE UPSTAIRS AND DOWNSTAIRS COLD WATER TAPS WHEN I PUT THEM ON -- IF I HAD A LEAK THEN SURELY ALL THE WATER LYING IN THE PIPES WOULD HAVE DRAINED AWAY OVERNIGHT ???- WELL, PART OF IT ANYWAY, EVEN THOUGH THERE HAD BEEN A LEAK UPSTAIRS.....
THANKS FOR ALL YOU HELP
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Postby billpater » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:27 am

[quote="htg engineer"]I would say it was just the flow of water through the mains outside - the noise will travel up the mains supplying your house.

I can hear water running sometimes, and that's just the mains water flowing - my stop tap is about 8 metres from the external mains stop tap.[/quote]

DEAR HTG ENGINEER - I RESPECT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ( AND HAVE BEEN READING ALL YOUR REPLIES TO OTHER DIY' ERS - YOU HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.
JUST TO FINISH OFF MY QUERY --- IF YOU GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUERY OF 13TH FEBRUARY 2008 - LINES 6,7,AND 8 YOU WILL SEE THAT THE FLOWING SOUND ALMOST STOPS (BUT NOT QUITE) WHEN I TURN OFF THE STOPCOCK INSIDE MY HOUSE. IF IT WAS JUST THE FLOW FROM THE MAINS SUPPLY THAT I WAS HEARING - WOULD THE SOUND ACTUALLY STOP BY SHUTTING OFF THE STOPCOCK. AFTER ALL, THE WATER WOULD STILL BE FLOWING RIGHT UP TO THE STOPCOCK ( AND IF ALL MY RESERVOIRS ARE FULL UP THEN WHY WOULD SIMPLY SHUTTING OFF THE INTERNAL STOPCOCK HAVE THE EFFECT OF MINIMISING THE FLOW SOUND RIGHT DOWN TO ALMOST NIL. RSVP IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THIS AGAIN - THANKS HTG ENGINEER - REGARDS BILL...
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Postby htg engineer » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:53 pm

If you can't find a leak and there's no signs of leak/water damage - then I can't see how it can be a leak. From what you say it's a running water sound - not a drip.

So when you turned off the mains stop tap - the next day the pipes were still full of water, if there was a drip then there could be abit water left - if it's water running then the pipes would have been dry the next day.

Turning off the mains stop tap, there was no noise - therefore it can't be the heating, hot water etc etc. It has to be the flow of water from the mains.

Hope this helps
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Postby billpater » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:21 am

HELLO AGAIN MR HTG ENGINEER, IF YOU HAPPEN TO READ THIS.
AFTER ALL THIS TIME ( SINCE FEBRUARY 2008) , WE HAVE BEEN HEARING THE FLOWING SOUND TO GET MORE NOISY LATELY SO CALLED UP SCOTTISH WATER TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. THE CHAP COULDN'T FIND WHERE THE PROBLEM - BUT DID SHOW ME WHERE THE FLOWING WATER WAS GOING ----OUT OF MY DRAINS INTO THE MAINS SEWER. SINCE THEN I TRIED THE FOLLOWING----I SHUP OFF MY MAINS WATER SUPPLY IN THE STREET ....AND THE CONTINUAL FLOW OF WATER STOPPED FLOWING OUT OF MY WASTE DRAIN INTO THE MAINS SEWER IN THE STREET. BUT THEN , WHEN I SHUT OFF THE WATER AT MY STOPCOCK JUST INSIDE MY HOUSE........THE WATER KEEPS ON FLOWING THROUGH AND INTO THE MAINS SEWER. THEREFORE I THINK THAT HAS PROVED THAT THERE IS A BREAK IN THE WATER PIPE THAT TAKES THE WATER FROM THE MAINS IN THE STREET TO THE STOPCOCK IN THE STEEET. THE WATER FROM THAT BURST MUST HAVE FOUND A PATH THAT MAKES IT RUN INTO MY WAST PIPE AND OUT INTO THE MAINS SEWER. LOOKS LIKE I SHALL HAVE TO NOW EMPLOY CONTRACTORS TO DIG UP MY FRONT GARDEN , AND PATH AND POSSIBLY A BIT OF THE PAVEMENT AND POSSIBLY THE FOUNDATIONS OF MY HOUSE IN ORDER TO FIND THE BURST WATER PIPE AND ALSO THE GREAK IN THE WAST PIPE. IS THERE SOME WAY THESE BREAKS CAN BE PINPOINTED TO AN EXACT LOCATION BEFORE DIGGING UP EVERYTHING ??
THANKS - BILL
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Postby htg engineer » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:46 pm

The pipe should run in a straight line direct from the external stop tap to the internal stop tap. You will be able to tell if they're inline with each other just by locating the two. Is this the case ?

If the garden slopes then obviously the water will run down hill, may help pinpoint the leak abit as you should know which side of the drain to start digging up. If the garden is flat it could be coming from either direction.

If it's a large run, and doesn't run in a straight line you can hire Utility Tracing Locators, you connect an electrical box to the main stop tap then a small electrical current is sent down the pipe the hand held detector will then help you trace the pipe route.

If the garden is soil or grass, you could push a stake into the ground, the ground will be softer and wetter the closer you get to the leak. You don't want to puncture pipe again though - so be careful.

Let us know how you get on.


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Postby plumbbob » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:31 pm

I am surprised that Scottish water did not try to pinpoint where the leak is. You can listen to the noise, and a trained ear can tell how far away the leak is. As you can hear the noise in the house, it stands to reason the leak is not far away from your stop tap.

Trace the run of the main back to the road, and see where it is near to the sewer. This might help in pinpointing the damage.

On another point, what is the pipe made of? Could it be better just to replace the whole lot rather than a repair? After all, if there is one hole.... And what's to say it may not fail again in the future, and if you are having to dig up your garden now anyway.....
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Postby billpater » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:42 pm

thanks for all your help -- htg engineer and plumbob ----I broke into the path at side of house , the stop tap was behind that wall beneath the stairs of my house. The noise was very loud so I presumed it could not be far away from the stop tap. when I dug up , the hole jast filled with water---it was gussing along the side of the yellow gas pipe.
I followed to pipe back to the mains turnoff in the street as I could see it was coming from that direction. After about 15 ft and only 3 ft from the pavement I found the leak - really gushing.
I dug up right back to the Mainsd turn off in the street ---got a plumber , and he has renewed the whole pipe with a plastic one.
At long last , my leak has been cured -----but what a mess of mud, sand,clay, stones !!!!
The waste is leaking somewhere , obviously, but goodness knows where--so I have just left it, and I am about to fill in the massive hole.
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Postby plumbbob » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:02 pm

Glad you decided to replace the whole pipe. It is often something that few people consider. In older properties, to avoid extra digging, several services were regularly laid in one trench, such as sewer and water pipes. This is fine while everything works, but if the water main is perforated, then water escapes into the sewer - which is fine, but if the water supply is interrupted, then water from the sewer can enter the drinking water supply. Not a nice thought.

One reason why you should never use a booster pump on a mains supply - something I have read several people on here claim to have done.
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