Cookerswitch socket RCD


Postby Cautious » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:36 pm

Just had a new partner move in and she's renting her old place. A system test returned a comment 'cooker switch socket not fitted with RCD' in the 'to do earliest opportunity' category. All the CUs I've seen, including my house, don't have the cooker in the RCD protection zone and the socket is part of and turned on by the cooker switch. Does anyone know what is needed to rectify the issue?
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Postby jackhawk » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:35 pm

[quote="Cautious"]Just had a new partner move in and she's renting her old place. A system test returned a comment 'cooker switch socket not fitted with RCD' in the 'to do earliest opportunity' category. All the CUs I've seen, including my house, don't have the cooker in the RCD protection zone and the socket is part of and turned on by the cooker switch. Does anyone know what is needed to rectify the issue?[/quote]

Hi Cautious,

You may find that your cooker socket (I take it your cooker switch has a socket) is in a position where it can be used to supply power to out doors appliances, eg lawnmower. If that is the case then it should be on the RCD side of the CU,

Regards
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Postby DONFRAMAC » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:29 am

The safety hazard at the cooker socket outlet is very real, but your cooker is unlikely to tolerate the personnel-protection level of RCD in the consumer unit, as 30 mA is too sensitive for a lot of cookers, so they are usually fed from a 300mA RCD, which is only good for fire protection.
I would just do away with the power socket, replacing the cooker-switch with a simpler double-pole one, with a LED "on" indicator.
If you are then desperately short of sockets, fit a spur-line from a nearby outlet using 2.5 sq. mm twin & earth ring-main cable to feed a double socket where you need it, presumably beside the cooker, above a work-top.
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Postby Cautious » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:18 pm

Thanks for the advice. The socket is well in the kitchen with other sockets right by the door for outdoor appliances. I think I'll just replace it with a none socket box. The kitchen has its own ring main with plenty of outlets. I just can't see why all suppliers are still selling the socketed cooker switch boxes. Lots are available. I know because I tried to find one with an independant RCD incorporated to get over the problem........and failed. Shouldn't they be banned if they can't pass an inspection?
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Postby 333rocky333 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:19 pm

I would ask the tester or his company to elaborate why he thinks it needs a rcd,which you have the right to do.
If as earlier post said regarding ouside use,if you have sockets already rcd protected in the vicinity, by fitting a FOR OUTSIDE USE label next to one you may comply but check with them.
It may be he was concerned with proximity for example to a sink.
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Postby sbelectrical » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:21 pm

all outlet that can recieve a plug that could supply outside equipment should be protected via an rcd, i would of noted this in a test as well and do, the way to fix this is not major either replace the front without a socket on or the cooker circuit to be moved over to rcd side. to be done by a part p reg sparks mind .
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Postby Cautious » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:24 am

I'm getting the old one replaced but the kitchen is away from the garden via a porch to both garage and kitched, both porch and garage have RCD sockets. The point is on the opposite side of the kitchen from the sink.
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Postby 333rocky333 » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:51 pm

sb, where in the regs is this stated,as far as im aware 471-16-01 states any socket REASONABLY likely to be used ,as cautious had previously said it is well inside the kitchen it is not likely you would run a lead PAST other sockets in the porch and use the cooker socket.

Any room that had windows that open ,you COULD run a lead out, so are you suggesting rcd protecting every socket.

Not everyone has a split load board so they would then require a new board or rcbo and for what reason.

Anyway will proberly all change in 17th regs
regards
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Postby sbelectrical » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:01 pm

as responce to your question, i was at an niceic seminar last week and the question was asked about socket outlets in offices the niceic area manager stated it would be a brave man to stand in court and say that any socket outlet was not for outdoor use in offices or domestic, unless
engraved or a sticker on them stating not for outdoor use, and also on a periodic inspection and test we do state all socket outlets must have rcd protection. it's there as idiot prof we all know that you wouldn't plug into upstairs or in the kitchen when there's one nearer but people do stupid things somtimes especialy if the property is to be rented out.
As for split load boards i suggest if you haven't got one you soon will as i've seen the draft for 17th and most circuits will possibly be rcd protected.
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Postby kuzz » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:26 pm

rocky. your right it's not in the regs, however the niceic seem to have invented there own regs book & do insist on rcd protection to every socket. Seems the only way out of it is to live at the top of a high rise block of flats. On an niceic inspection we are now made to give no rcd protection to sockets as "requires urgent attention" The same risk as live wires exposed, even if the disconnection times are met. Quite ridiculous. niceic suck donkey balls.
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Postby 333rocky333 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:56 am

ok thanks,as I do mainly commercial stuff now did not realise that.

I also read about the 17th and I read its worded against split load boards, saying rcd' s must not cause INCONVENIENCE to customers when they trip and that rcbo circuits will be required to get round that reg.

I think there was already a similar reg in the 16th anyway.
R
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Postby sbelectrical » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:06 pm

Rocky, true rcbo would be the best idea i agree the only problem is you can buy a split load board for the price of an rcbo, i think the wholesalers should bring the prices of them down. SB
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Postby ericmark » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am

Looking at the diagram included in the Part P on page 17 it shows all upstairs and cooker plus hob supplies on the non RCD side of the consumer unit. Bedroom with shower has it's own RCD protected socket and the ground floor ring, garage or shed, and outside socket are only things protected by the consumer unit RCD.
I would not normally do that but it will be noted that there are issues in supplying switch mode power supplies in computers from RCD's both because of loss of data when they trip and the fact that switch mode supplies tend to trip RCD's not due to a fault but the way they draw current. Items with high earth leakage like any mineral insulated heating element used in cookers etc. Also should not go through a RCD and equipment which is specially effected by power failure like fridges, freezers, Alarms etc.
One must ask which produces the greatest danger the eating refrozen food or the chance of electric shock? I have seen diagrams where the fridge/freezer supply is taken from first floor supply i.e. Non RCD protected and from Alarm supply again non RCD protected with added befit that alarm beeps when supply is removed so alerting occupants of failure. Using separate supply to fridge/freezer is not recommended as the occupants could be unaware of its failure.
On saying that all my house is on two 30ma RCD's installed well before split boards were common and also emergency lighting units so one can see to get to garage to switch back on. With more and more computers in the house I may need a UPS soon these tend to stop computers tripping the RCD's
ericmark

Postby juli-juan » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:48 pm

people plug extentions in any where i have heard of one from 2nd floor in flats to hoover out a car
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