Does anyone really think Part P is doing any good ??


Postby Ramsgate » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:05 am

Firstly I m not a sparks, but have done more than my fair share of electrical work as part of my job, Installing and repairing appliances including built in kitchens,

I would describe my level of workmanship and ability as pretty good and I think I know more than enough of the regulations relevant to what I was doing. but the more I see other peoples work, the more I am horrified that some of these people have been given the legal right to install anything more than a 13amp plug top.

I am now sidelined to plugtops and non notifiable work for the time being until I get myself part P'd since BC increased their charges by £70 but here's a couple of things I saw this week alone

I was in a customers house in Brodstairs, Kent to fit their kitchen appliances , they had used an NICEIC domestic and approved installer to fully rewire the house, what a mess and they have also left it in a dangerous state with a missing switch and bare wires in a dark basment (which is now the kitchen) for 6 weeks while they try to get a dimmer switch. they have also cut holes in new joists and trimmer joists at the ends, all cables are unclipped and just hanging over noggins.

There was apparently no ceilings in place when the first fix was done so there was no excuse for not clipping cables, in another room I noticed that several of the downlights were not in propperly, on closer inspection, it turned out they had cut the holes over and next to joists and instead of dealing with the mistake, they just made the holes bigger and pushed the lights in, 3 of the 50w downlights were touching the joists, you could smell the wood getting hot !!!

I told them to complain to the NICEIC about the state of it and not use the lights in that room until they had propper inspection done by an independant company.

Another job this one in Ramsgate I went to, the sparks was on site, I pulled out the washer and dryer and noticed there was a single new 2.5 T&E going to a brand new double socket, I asked if this was for the machines, he said Yes I questioned the fact it was a radial and he said well they don't draw much so they'll be OK.

I (not overly happy about it) carried on doing my doo's and before I left I followed the cable, it went to another double socket (also new) and then on via single cable to join the ring, this second double was where the microwave was going.

At this point I felt that this can't be legal, I questioned him again asking why not just extend the ring into the new, and he started spouting the i'm qualified to do this, your not. blah blah blah then went on to say that the tumble dryer only draws 3 Amp, 4 at most and the washing machine the same. I was gobbsmacked, i said it's a 2.5kw heater in the dryer and the washer has just over, which is about 10amp each without the motors running, he insisted that he was right and I was wrong and not meddle in things I did not understand.

I refused to connect the machines and left the job with the guy laughing at my 10amp calculation.

Would any of you agree with me on this, or was I in the wrong ?

That was another part P firm doing the work.

I don't think Part P has stopped bad workmanship, but it does mean more is now going unchecked
Ramsgate
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Postby sparx » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:13 pm

Hi Ramsgate
Romney Marsher here!!!
you have a point, as a sparks with only 40 post apprenticeship years in trade I am afraid standards now are abysemal, due in no small way to
'defined scope' schemes for part P. Also due I feel to the many authorised scheme registration organisations fighting for member numbers they are allowing in almost anybody after a short course!
There should have been only one operator like corgi gas, at least the playing field would be level.
To be fair, in my area most plumbers, kitchen fitters etc have decided not to try to do their own electrics, some have 16th regs certs. but are not happy to carry out testing etc. so we are busy as a company & have gone back to domestic work from commercial as a result.
I agree Part P HAS made things worse because as you will read on here so many people think now it's easy money to be a sparks & adverts for courses imply easy registration, which if u go to NICEIC seems to be the case. regards -issed-off proper SPARX
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Postby BLAKEY1963 » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:06 pm

[quote="Ramsgate"]Firstly I m not a sparks, but have done more than my fair share of electrical work as part of my job, Installing and repairing appliances including built in kitchens,

I would describe my level of workmanship and ability as pretty good and I think I know more than enough of the regulations relevant to what I was doing. but the more I see other peoples work, the more I am horrified that some of these people have been given the legal right to install anything more than a 13amp plug top.

I am now sidelined to plugtops and non notifiable work for the time being until I get myself part P'd since BC increased their charges by £70 but here's a couple of things I saw this week alone

I was in a customers house in Brodstairs, Kent to fit their kitchen appliances , they had used an NICEIC domestic and approved installer to fully rewire the house, what a mess and they have also left it in a dangerous state with a missing switch and bare wires in a dark basment (which is now the kitchen) for 6 weeks while they try to get a dimmer switch. they have also cut holes in new joists and trimmer joists at the ends, all cables are unclipped and just hanging over noggins.

There was apparently no ceilings in place when the first fix was done so there was no excuse for not clipping cables, in another room I noticed that several of the downlights were not in propperly, on closer inspection, it turned out they had cut the holes over and next to joists and instead of dealing with the mistake, they just made the holes bigger and pushed the lights in, 3 of the 50w downlights were touching the joists, you could smell the wood getting hot !!!

I told them to complain to the NICEIC about the state of it and not use the lights in that room until they had propper inspection done by an independant company.

Another job this one in Ramsgate I went to, the sparks was on site, I pulled out the washer and dryer and noticed there was a single new 2.5 T&E going to a brand new double socket, I asked if this was for the machines, he said Yes I questioned the fact it was a radial and he said well they don't draw much so they'll be OK.

I (not overly happy about it) carried on doing my doo's and before I left I followed the cable, it went to another double socket (also new) and then on via single cable to join the ring, this second double was where the microwave was going.

At this point I felt that this can't be legal, I questioned him again asking why not just extend the ring into the new, and he started spouting the i'm qualified to do this, your not. blah blah blah then went on to say that the tumble dryer only draws 3 Amp, 4 at most and the washing machine the same. I was gobbsmacked, i said it's a 2.5kw heater in the dryer and the washer has just over, which is about 10amp each without the motors running, he insisted that he was right and I was wrong and not meddle in things I did not understand.

I refused to connect the machines and left the job with the guy laughing at my 10amp calculation.

Would any of you agree with me on this, or was I in the wrong ?

That was another part P firm doing the work.

I don't think Part P has stopped bad workmanship, but it does mean more is now going unchecked[/quote]

RAMSGATE
I AM PLEASED THAT SPARX HAS ANSWERED YOUR COMMENTS
THE ONLY INPUT I WOULD LIKE TO ADD IS THIS.
I AM A REGISTERED INSTALLER WITH NICEIC , AND I AGREE WITH SPARX COMMENTS ABOUT ABYSMAL STANDARDS.
MY BROTHER IN LAW IS PART P REGISTERED WITH E.C.A AND HELPED
ME WITH MY PART REGISTRATION.
I WENT WITH NICEIC, BECAUSE I DO MAINLY ONLY DOMESTIC WORK.
I FEEL VERY STRONGLY RAMSGATE THAT IF YOU FEEL WORK HAS NOT
BEEN CARRIED OUT TO THE RELEVANT STARDARD AND AS U STATE
IT WAS DONE BY NICEIC CONTRACTERS THEN U MUST REPORT IT TO NICEIC SO IT CAN BE INVESTIGATED. THEY MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO CARRY OUT SUB STANDARD WORK.
I COME ACROSS WORK CARRIED OUT BY CONTRACTERS, WHOSE CUSTOMERS CONTACT ME ON A REGULAR BASIS AND FIND LIKE U DID
IT IS APALLING. I CONDEM IT AND GET THE CUSTOMER TO CONTACT
TRADING STADARDS AND THEY SUCESSFULLY DEAL WITH IT FROM THERE.
PLAIN AND SIMPLY IF U KNOW A CONTRACTER DOING SUB STANDARD
WORK THEN YOU HAVE A DUTY TO REPORT HIM, SIMPLE AS THAT
BLAKEY1963
BLAKEY1963
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:57 pm


Postby Ramsgate » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:55 pm

Thanks guys,

So your just up the road from me then SPARX,

I last looked at going for part P a year ago, and it seemed there was only a couple of ways in and extremly expensive at the time, I didn't realise it had become so easy to get in on it now.

Maybe i'll think about doing it again, to be honest, I'm not interested in doing loads of notifiable work, I'm more interested in knowing that a job I start is going to be 100% safe and I can walk away knowing that it's done as near perfect as I can get it, whereas at the moment when it's left to the customer to decide who's going to do any notifiable work.I can't put my hand on heart and say i'm confident it will "all" be OK.

More often than not the cheapest quote wins no matter who I reccomend to the customer, and with the cheapest you often get what you pay for, and I crindge when they mention one campany name (Don't worry I won't say it) and I can't just say to them "don't use them their work is terrible"

One of the firms I try to use where ever possible says that one local firm is a laughing joke at the wholesalers, so many of the other local firms have had to correct work that's been done by them or had to refuse to work on dangerous instalations carried out by them and told customers to get them back, (this is the firm that did the install I mentioned first).

Don't get me wrong I don't think every firm even the low cost ones are the same, most of the work I see is of good standard but even one dangerous instalation done by an authourised firm is one too many, and Joe Public will very rarely know if it's right or wrong, But I see (especially round here) on average one a week that is definatly not up to scratch.

That's my moan over :D

forgot to say before what a great place this is, hope i'll be able to contribute and help out somewhere along the way
Ramsgate
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:02 am


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