double light switch problem


Postby my old man » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:08 pm

hi guys ,
having trouble wiring a double light switch , what i did was take the old switch off , i thought i wrote everything down right , but obviously not , right i have a new one , i have wired the two red wires to each of the switches at the top , now i have 6 more wires , i have tried my best trying all different ways , sometimes the switch operates the hall downstairs and the landing together , which i dont want it to , then a other way just the hall light works downstairs and not the upstairs light , all i want is the one switch to operate downstairs and the other for upstairs , i hope you all understand what i am talking about , im getting alot of ear bashing from the mrs
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Postby 333rocky333 » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:42 pm

Need more info Like

Apart from the G/Y earths
what are the colours of the cables


whether they are
single cores
twin cores in one cable
Or
three cores in one cable
Or
some of each

Upstairs light was it two way ie up/ down
Downstairs was it two way ie up/down
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Postby ericmark » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:45 pm

Sorry too many variables with this and only way to complete safely is call in an electrician.
ericmark

Postby 333rocky333 » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:46 pm

Also was there any short bits of cable linking any terminals

Any bits you wrote down that you think are DEFINITELY right would also help
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Postby my old man » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:46 pm

i have enclosed a picture ,i know the two red wires at the top go to live , then the six wires left are 2 yellow with red sleeves, 2 blue wires with red sleeves , and then 1 single red wire and 1 black wire with red sleeve , and then there's the green wires , this numpty knows they are the earth ,so now i have 6 wires and 4 terminals on the switch L1 L2 & L1 L2

[IMG]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/mattm_photos/SNV31992.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/mattm_photos/SNV31994.jpg[/IMG]
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Postby ericmark » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:31 am

I have looked at your photo and I can see you have three cables 2 x Triple and earth and 1 x Twin and earth. And they are marked showing non as being a neutral cable. If they are wired to standard wiring we would expect these switches to both be two way.
The Twin and earth would be feed and return to one lamp. The two Triple and earths connect to other switches. Each switch will have a common plus a normal open and normal closed. The Twin and earth will go in the normal open and normal closed most likely marked L1 and L2 which are likely to be same end of switch and will also have wires from the Triple and earth in with them. The wire left on that triple and earth will go to common. Which leaves one triple and earth left which will have one wire in each hole of the switch left. But as to which colour goes where that’s another problem. Swapping the wires in the N/O and N/C I am assuming marked L1 and L2 will make no effect except to change if both switches are same wall to switch on or both switches are opposite way to switch on. So for each switch you need to try each of the three colours in turn in the common until it works so a max of six attempts to get it working. But if you don’t know we also must work out which Triple and earth goes with twin and earth and which is on it’s own. So start with one on its own. One Triple and earth however you connect in switch on its own will do nothing, The other having tried all three wires in common with other two in L1 and L2 will work a light. The one left goes with twin and earth. Which ever colour goes into common with one Triple and earth it is likely to be same colour with other Triple and earth. The twin and earth will connect to N/O and N/C which I expect are L1 and L2. My web site has diagram of two way switching but we are not allowed to put in links but try www then my login name then talktalk.net and you may find it. I am assuming standard wiring and both switches being two way and you are electrically trained. Just not familiar with two way house wiring. I could be completely wrong you are on site and must decide if you are able to do this safely or not.
ericmark

Postby my old man » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:40 pm

hi guys ,
still no joy its really pissing me off and so is the missus , all it was just a simple task i said to her ( :scratch: ) , right where shall i start , i have a double switch at the top of the stairs , a double switch at the bottom of the stairs and a single switch at the otherside of the hall downstairs , so depending which way the switch in the hall has been pressed the double switch at the bottom of the stairs does not turn the light off downstairs in the hall but will work the light upstairs , i hope i have explained this ok !!
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Postby ericmark » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:27 pm

I am able to put all the pictures on my web site but not allowed to put links. Since I have only just moved to talktalk the web site simply www as normal followed by ericmark etc will not come up since it ends with just net not so easy to guess. They were going to put it on the project page but nothing as yet. So all have to be done with words. So here goes.
Two wires come from the light these will normally be red and a black with red sleeve. These will go to the L1 and L2 of the switch. From first switch to second the two wires that go to L1 and L2 will also go to one end of second switch and the third wire which was in common on first switch will go into a connector of some sort. The third switch will have the other pair of wires that go into second switch going to L1 and L2 and the wire that went into the connector will go into com on third switch.

The other switch in the pair is the second or third switch from another two/three way system.

There is no standard colour code for the three wires between each switch which is why I tried to explain how to work them out.

I am dyslexic which is seems is very common with engineers so I hope someone who is better with English can explain it in a way you can understand.

All best Eric
ericmark

Postby bd3cc » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:23 pm

Try this.
Take one 3core to one switch, and the other 3 core to the other switch, and connect both as follows:
Red to common ( one may be at the top and one at the bottom
Blue to either L1 or L2 it doesnt matter
Yellow to either L1 or L2, whichever is empty.

Then put the red of the 2core into L1 of one switch and the black of the 2core into L2 of the same switch.
If this does not make the lights function correctly, take the 2core red and black and try them in L1 and L2 of the other switch. It doesn't matter which way round.
You cannot damage anything as therew are no neutrals.
It will either function or not.
In all cases when talking cores I have ignored the earth as you seem to know what to do with it.
Your description is entirely consistent with a double switch operating 2, 2way lights, and you should end up with 5cores to one switch and only 3 to the other.
Hope that helps
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Postby bd3cc » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:33 pm

PS to my last post, I suspect that if you look at your landing switch, you will see the configuration required. if not on that one, then on the single hall switch.
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