Electric shower problem

Postby bluenun » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:17 pm

Hi all,

I had an 8.5KW shower fitted a week ago and it has worked fine up until now.
I was in the shower and is suddenly lost water pressure from the shower head and I found the reason why.

Water is coming out of the small black rubber tube behind the outlet connection.

There is no mention in my handbook of what this thin black rubber tube is.

I made sure there was no blockage in the shower head and hose but do not know what to do next to rectify this problem.
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Postby ericmark » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:25 am

Showers are not the things to guess with and I would turn off the isolator switch and call back whoever fitted it. It sounds as if a pipe has come off and if that happens inside the shower it could be very dangerous. You may also want to make sure the electrician as well as plummer comes back and it is re-tested in case it has got inside the electric bits. And insist on a certificate with a date after the repair. You will get one within 30 days of the job being done but the electrician may not know about the leak.

Postby bluenun » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:48 pm

The shower neon indicator did still come on and the water did still get hot.

Now I have turned the isolator switch off and turned the fuse to the shower off in the consumer unit.

It is a Creda 8500DL.
I took the front panel off of the shower and turned the tap (inner knob B)on.

There are no internal leaks and everything is bone dry in there.
Some water is coming out of the shower hose/head and some out of the thin black rubber hose behind it.

It's not usable and the helpline is closed until tomorrow.

I'll probably end up throwing it away and getting one of those thermostatic mixer showers plumbed in without the need for any electrics.
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Postby ericmark » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:30 pm

Looking on the Creda web site I downloaded instructions and it seems there is a "Burst Pressure Relief Valve" It seems this will go if the shower head becomes blocked. It says "Check for cause of high pressure and remove it." And you may have to "Replace the pressure relief disc (not covered by guarantee)" It says working pressure from 10psi to 100psi since it is new I would expect you have over the 100psi and the plumber will need to fit a pressure reducing valve but I am an electrician not a plumber. Having read the instructions I see the comments I made about being dangerous were wrong and there would be no need for the electrician to return. Also the paper work which you get within the 30 days of fitting will all be valid. Sorry I got it wrong but better to play safe.
As to non electric types that is what I use even though I am an electrician and 27Kw showers are really good don't need soap it blasts the dirt off. Comes direct from my gas water heater. My parents have a motor driven one and have turned the supply to motor off even with only a 8 foot head it works great.
All best Eric
P.S. It seems the instructions are to be left with user. You need to tell them off for not leaving them it is quite plain when you read the "What to do when things go wrong" section.

Postby bluenun » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:07 pm

Thanks for the reply.
I do have the shower handbook and I also searched on google and found the handbook on there so I know we are reading from the same booklet.

on page 4, second section
d) "check for cause of high pressure and remove it.
Blockage on outlet e.g blocked showerhead.
Replace the pressure relief disc (not covered by guarentee)."

I did take the shower hose off and there is no blockage on either end, I have a gauze washer on one end which is also clear.
The shower head is also free from any blockage. I have blown through all the above mentioned parts.

I do not know what the cause of the high pressure is.
The shower was installed on 25.01.08 and over the next few days I was turning my mains stopcock (under sink in kitchen) down gradually so I am surprised it found the pressure too high now.

In the Handbook diagrams it does not show where the pressre relief disc is.

External link deleted.
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Postby ericmark » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:56 pm

Flow and pressure are not the same. Turning the stop cock will reduce flow which may also reduce pressure I looked in Plumb Centre and I found a RWC 312 15mm Adj Cold Pressure Red Valve Not cheap at £56 but that does reduce pressure but if it were me I would be calling the installer back and letting them sort it out. Cheaper in Screwfix Honeywell 15mm Pressure Reducing Valve.
Protects household water installations against excessive pressure from supply. By installing this valve, pressurisation damage is avoided and water consumption is reduced. WRAS approved.

* Calibrated Setting Dial
* Replacement Valve Insert Assembly
* Inlet Pressure Balancing
* Lightweight
£34 seems better sorry not allowed links

Postby bluenun » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:45 am

Thanks for the information on the pressure reducing valves.

It is an option but on top of the price of the valve and installation I would need to pay the installer to come back out and I am sure he would come to the same conclusion that I need a new pressure relief disc which I would also need to pay for.

I am trying to get through to the helpline which are supposed to be open from 8;30 but I am only getting a recorded message so far.
I was going to see if there was anyone will knowledge of showers on the helpline and maybe order a pressure relief disc and try to fit it myself.

The alternative is to take the shower back to Argos and try to get a refund from the manager.

In my last message I posted a link to some showers without the need for electrics to get your opinion but I did not realise external links were not allowed.

I just want a basic simple shower that I can plumb straight into my pipework, I have a part condensing boiler.
Is there anything I need to look out for or avoid?

Lots of different terms were used like, "thermostatic mixer shower" "manual mixer shower" "combi pressure balance mixer shower" "BCR mixer shower" so it gets a bit confusing when trying to choose one.
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Postby ericmark » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:43 pm

On a regular basis Lidl do a
"Thermostatic Shower Mixer
Made from chrome plated brass. Temperature regulation from 20°C - 48°C. ½'' brass-chrome connector. With scald protection button. Supplied with chrome plated rosettes, S-connector and seals. 5 year manufacturer's warranty. Price per item £24.99"
Last done on 31st Jan 2008 so you may find one is stock. Cheapest I have seen them but no idea how good.
But in general mine is direct from boiler and is great.

Postby bluenun » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:37 pm

Nice find, I am interested in the thermostatic mixer shower from lidl and read all the posts from those that have bought it but when I click on the buy link I am redirected to the home page so I assume it has sold out.
There are no email contact address on the lidl site either.

Excuse my ignorance but am I right in thinking this will need to be connected to my hot and cold water supply pipes?
Would this work with my part condensing boiler that was new and installed in 2006?
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Postby bluenun » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:34 pm

I disconected and returned the electric shower to Argos and got a refund then telehponed Lidl customer services to see if my nearest store (15 miles away) had any thermostatic shower mixers, apparently they had but when I got there it turned out they were only shower risers and head :(
Drove home and called customer services again who said the next nearest store (22 miles) had 6 left so I drove over and bought one.

I would really like to install this myself as I hate relying on other people and they don't seem to care about making a neat job.
I would be able to connect one side to the cold water supply because this was the one used when they installed the electric shower but I do not know which pipe I need to cut and connect to the thermostatic shower for hot water.
Are there any step by step guides anywhere I could read on this because the instruction book only covers how to assemble it not install it.
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Postby thedoctor » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:59 pm

Not a great Idea to DIY a mixer shower with no experience of plumbing at all. Hot water drawn incorrectly from a tank can cause all sorts of problems with air locks and special valves are installed at the top of the tank to make the process work smoothly. Please seek the advice of a local plumber it will very likely be cheaper in the long run.
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Postby ericmark » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:55 pm

I am an electrician not plumber and although I do a bit I could not really advise but do realize they need to be same pressure hot and cold. For me not a problem as hot water is at cold water pressure but I know at my fathers house they ran cold water supply all the way back to hot water header tank and had to do all sorts so that the tank could not empty and kill the immersion heater

Postby bluenun » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:14 pm

Ok, point taken.
I think I am out of my depth on this job.
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Postby bluenun » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:26 pm

Could you please tell me the advantage of a thermostatic mixer shower over a bath/shower mixer?

I ask because I can install the bath/shower mixer myself.
Lidl sell them for £16.99 and I need to go back there to get the riser, hose and shower head even if I get a Plumber to install the thermostatic mixer shower.
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:39 pm

Postby ericmark » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:09 pm

The thermostatic one adjusts to small pressure changes and maintains the temperature of the water at shower head. Will normally coupe with washing machine filling but not our leaver taps if opened quickly. Old screw type tapes it can coupe with.

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