Fitting your own boiler


Postby DEEARR2 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:12 pm

I think the legallity aspect has been well documented here and the fact that DIYers are still being are allowed to carry out gas installs, to whatever unsupervised standard, also highlighted.
Competancy and safety are the main issues that we are trying to get across. I am still of the opinion that there must be legislation passed to stop the practice and the sooner the better. Evidence of the serious concequences of incompetent gas work is overwhelming which the H&E are aware of. This evidence manifests itself in the constant stream of investigations into incidents by them and their appointed body the Gas Safe Register.
Being aware of current ACOPS, upgrades and the introduction of new gas related regulations is the main criterion here which can only be rounded under one catagory and that is recognised competency.
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Postby rosebery » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:03 pm

"I think the legallity aspect has been well documented here"

Does that mean that you withdraw your previous statement that HSE say that DIY Gas is illegal?


"and the fact that DIYers are still being are allowed to carry out gas installs, to whatever unsupervised standard, also highlighted."

Yes I agree but its not illegal. Are you also withdrawing your assertation that I am promoting DIY gaswork?


"Competancy and safety are the main issues that we are trying to get across."

Thats exactly what the GasSafe Reister is all about or isn't it? Aren't the regulations primarily about driving incompetant and illegal gasworkers out of the industry where they prey on the unsuspecting public. This is a far, far greater threat to public safety than anything but anything else associated with gas.


"Evidence of the serious concequences of incompetent gas work is overwhelming which the H&E are aware of. This evidence manifests itself in the constant stream of investigations into incidents by them and their appointed body the Gas Safe Register."

The vast majority of which are cowboys trading illegally as Gas Engineers or is that not so? Or are you saying that these are wholly DIY incidents?

Cheers
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Postby htg engineer » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:55 pm

It doesn't matter if you're a cowboy or a DIYer trying to save a few quid - you'll get the same fine or prison sentence if you get it wrong and you kill people/family members. Even if there's no where saying DIY gas work is illegal, there's plenty adavising against it, stating you have to be competent and there's documentation stating what is meant by competent in Gas regulations - HSE state that you have to be competent.

YOU cannot decide you're competent.

As for being able to buy gas fittings - what's that got to do with anything.

Going off rosebery's theory:
Scalpel's are readily available to buy - so DIY surgery is not advisable - but must be ok. lol


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Postby rosebery » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:14 am

[quote="htg engineer"]It doesn't matter if you're a cowboy or a DIYer trying to save a few quid - you'll get the same fine or prison sentence if you get it wrong and you kill people/family members."

Yep - quite right.


"Even if there's no where saying DIY gas work is illegal,"

Except that two posters did that very thing on this thread and when challenged got a bit huffy.


"there's plenty adavising against it, stating you have to be competent and there's documentation stating what is meant by competent in Gas regulations - HSE state that you have to be competent."

I believe I also said that there is plenty of advice saying you shouldn't do it.


"YOU cannot decide you're competent."

No you can't but the Inspector can decide if your installation is competant once you've asked him so to do and paid your fee and you can then pay the separate fee to the BCO to notify it. Expensive way of going about it but it can be done.


"As for being able to buy gas fittings - what's that got to do with anything."

Everything! If DIY gas were illegal the sheds would not be allowed to sell the stuff to just anyone. It is illegal to use Class A drugs. You don't see them on the shelves at Tescos.


"Scalpel's are readily available to buy - so DIY surgery is not advisable - but must be ok. lol"

Thats flippant but if thats what peeps want to do - LoL. It wasn't me saying categorically that DIY gaswork is illegal according to HSE and someone else agreeing with said poster.

Cheers
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Postby htg engineer » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:44 pm

I understand what you're saying about being able to buy things over the counter, but pipe, fittings etc etc can also be used on water/plumbing - so the only think they could stop selling is bayonet's, cooker hoses, boilers and boiler parts. That wouldn't stop "illegal" pipework.

Anyway I'm sure we've had this topic posted a few times before with the same arguments. lol


The HSE, CORGI, GAS SAFE etc etc don't seem that bothered, if they were they would make it illegal, and like you say, they could bring in legislation where you would need a GAS SAFE registration number to buy any gas parts.

I'm bored with this topic now - lol
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Postby rosebery » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:44 pm

"I understand what you're saying about being able to buy things over the counter, but pipe, fittings etc etc can also be used on water/plumbing - so the only think they could stop selling is bayonet's, cooker hoses, boilers and boiler parts. That wouldn't stop "illegal" pipework."

Yes I meant gasfittings specifically such as those you mention and gascocks as well.


"The HSE, CORGI, GAS SAFE etc etc don't seem that bothered, if they were they would make it illegal, and like you say, they could bring in legislation where you would need a GAS SAFE registration number to buy any gas parts."

Quite - they are more concerned about those trading illegally and those who, unfortunately, have all the paper quals and registrations but are still incompetant. They are the biggest danger.


"I'm bored with this topic now - lol"

Me too actually - shall we drop it now?

Cheers
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Postby geezah » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:29 pm

I asked Corgi as it was, 10 years ago if it was illegal for me to fit a central heating boiler in my own home, they said then that it was not. I don't know what the current legality is.

This was because I was fed up of local heating engineers taking the mickey.

Time has come for a new boiler again, easier instalation, hole through the wall is already there (made by me last time!)etc. My first quote for a Worcester bosch, 24Ri regular boiler with standard horizontal flue inc fitting was £2,000. Yes of course businesses are not charities, they exist to make a profit etc,etc.

The boiler and parts cant come to any more than £1,000 at the outside. When I asked the installer how long the job would take he said about a day! So thats £1,000 for a days labour. 'Ah, but theres two of us." he says. I'm holding my tongue by this stage.

I'm not going to insult the majority of decent installers to ask if this is fair. I'm not a heating engineer but it took me 12 hours on my own to rip out my old floor standing Ideal Mexico and fit my new wall hung condensing boiler and to "commission" it. And he wants £1,000 for what in reality will be 2 - 3 hours work, all because he has a certificate which says that he can connect a copper pipe to a boiler that carries gas. Obviously he quoted this because he gets away with it.

I would never touch anything that I didnt feel comfortable with, I know my limitations, but I can use gas ptfe and compression fittings and leak spray, like any competent person. Look, ultimately I would much rather pay for someone qualified to do the job, like most people I'm busy enough as it is, but I,m not going to be had by these unscrupulous conmen. Although I'm sure they are in the minority, there still seems to be an awful lot of them.

The way ahead? I haven't got all the answers but maybe a menu type charging system by Corgi/Gassafe, I'll throw it open for your suggestions.

Interstingly, I'll add that the only time Ive had to call out British gas for a gas leak in my home was when a Corgi registered engineer moved the boiler in a kitchen remodel and only secured the gas supply nut to the boiler hand tight!
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