Getting Part P for Building Regs


Postby cutiecat » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:00 pm

We had an extension built last year. The electrical installation was carried out by an electrician who has not filled out his paper work correctly and will not return my calls.

Building control will not sign it off, even when I had an independent inspection carried out, as they want the original electrician to sign it off properly.

I need this all done asap as we are selling our house and need the building regs to exchange.

The work was 3 sockets, 3 light fittings and the underfloor heating connected. I have a feeling that Camden Building control have no idea what is going on.

Any ideas?
cutiecat
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Postby BLAKEY1963 » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:28 pm

[quote="cutiecat"]We had an extension built last year. The electrical installation was carried out by an electrician who has not filled out his paper work correctly and will not return my calls.

Building control will not sign it off, even when I had an independent inspection carried out, as they want the original electrician to sign it off properly.

I need this all done asap as we are selling our house and need the building regs to exchange.

The work was 3 sockets, 3 light fittings and the underfloor heating connected. I have a feeling that Camden Building control have no idea what is going on.

Any ideas?[/quote]

cutiecat
Do u know which competent persons scheme , this Electrician
was registered to , in order for him to fill out his Electrical Installation certificate to comply with PART P.
For example i am registered with NICEIC , competent persons
scheme , for PART P .
There r others ECA , NAPPIT , ect.
Once u know who he is registered with then u can contact them
and explain your predicament.

BLAKEY1963
BLAKEY1963
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:57 pm


Postby cutiecat » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:05 pm

I have check most sites by his name and postcode but I am drawing blanks.

I have an awful suspicion that he is not registered.

I have spoken to Niceic about it and they have so far been helpful but say that I need to get Camden Council to decide what they want done.

Thanks
cutiecat
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:55 pm


Postby ericmark » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:50 pm

A few years ago I had something similar. The builders walked off site halfway through a job. Since they had employed the electrician I had no idea who he was. It was a wet room and he did let us get away without ripping out drains but underfloor heating had to come up and be re-laid. There must be provision for when an electrician dies while doing a job and I would assume the building controls would dictate what they needed exposing for inspection. They did with us. What bit was not filled in correctly? What you list could very well not be covered with Part P. If the electrician thinks it is not Part P work and you and or building controls think it is then it could very well be just the fee that building control is upset about? The person designing and installing has to sign to say it was done in accordance with BS7671:2001 and that is all. The figures are all filled in by the person inspecting and testing which you have had done so as long as he has signed the documents that should be enough. We had no documentation which is a little different to incorrectly filled in documentation. Can't see what you can get wrong for design and install it only has your name, your address, what was done, signature, and what edition of BS7671 and list of departures? How can anyone fill that in wrong?
ericmark


Postby cutiecat » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:31 pm

ericmark - I have no idea why the forms are incomplete. I think they want to registration number and from my detective work he is not affiliated to any body. I had him on recommendation and his work seems very good to me and the other electrician.

Camden are being buggers.

:(
cutiecat
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:55 pm


Postby Skids » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:03 pm

Hi fellers

This is a good wake-up call for everyone.

The way the ‘Building Regs’ are now and are going we all should be checking the details of any person we let in to our house to carry out any work, especially a large job.

If you are willing to pay someone more that £100 for a job you need to check their details!!

As a plumber who has just got my BPEC ‘unvented’ and ‘solar’ tickets I ensure all my clients know my quals

Regards

Skids
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:35 pm


Postby ericmark » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:02 am

The problem is he does not have to be registered under the Part P system. If the work needs Part P one of you can inform building controls before starting and pay a fee then building controls inspects the forms filled out by the electrician and if they don't like them they can at their expense do an inspection and test. They can also request viewing at stages of the work. But nothing says if electrician or you must contact building controls so you will need to prove you agreed with the electrician that he was to contact building controls so unless he has included the charge on his bill you may have a problem.

The other point is there is nothing in what you have said that says it has to be done under Part P anyway. Bathroom and Kitchen are special areas and you can only replace like for like. But else where unless completely new circuits extra sockets and lights don't have to be registered. The under floor heating I am not sure on. But unless it is Part P work your electrician would not have needed to register it anyway.

In projects there is a link to Part P and you can down load the document. Who has said it should have been done under Part P. And you are talking about an extension which I would have thought would have needed to have some building control anyway and if so then it would have been up to building controls to say before the work was started on what they required. And time is also not on your side the council has to issue Part P within 30 days of completion so the question arises why did it take so long before you realized it was missing?

I had council building controls on site within 2 days of builders walking off and the council said I would have to wait for paperwork before I started on remedial work. I had to point out it was emergency work as my mother has no loo she could use and as such I could inform them when complete. They also wanted me to employ a Part P electrician to test it and again I had to point out there was no such thing and with my qualifications which included a degree in electrical engineering I was able to sign them my self at which he said well if they pass. To which I replied do you really think I will submit any that will fail at this point he backed off had a cup of coffee and admitted they didn't like anything not under self reg system as he had no one qualified to test it. And was relieved to find we did know what we were doing. The electrician has to give forms to person ordering the work which was the builder so if you are same as us that could also be a problem for you.

Sorry not good news and I do hope you sort it. I think Part P is not fit for purpose and the person doing the work should have a license like a driving license which could be revoked if sub standard work is done. But it is the company that joins the system and with the owner being the one who has to sort it all out it persuades owners not to report bad workmanship as they could end up with bill so protects the rouge trader more then the house owner. Seems it caused more accidents in New Zealand and has been done away with. Especially with increased numbers of extension leads in use.

Maybe you need to complain to MP?
ericmark


Postby BLAKEY1963 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:23 am

[quote="cutiecat"]ericmark - I have no idea why the forms are incomplete. I think they want to registration number and from my detective work he is not affiliated to any body. I had him on recommendation and his work seems very good to me and the other electrician.

Camden are being buggers.


CUTIECAT
AS ericmark has commented , and i feel the same.
now u cannot establish a scheme he is registered with ,
u need to go and see the building inspector at camden
and ask them to consider your circumstances .
they should now conclude things for you.
i have known similar cases go to trading standards and have
then been sorted out with the local authority involved.

BLAKEY1963


:([/quote]
BLAKEY1963
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:57 pm


Postby ericmark » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:19 pm

I have looked at some other sites and maybe all they are after is their fee? It seems where the electrics are done with a registered electrician the building controls fee for the whole job is lower than with a non registered electrician. Although not by much. Because you would have had building controls for whole job a non registered electrician would not have normally contacted building controls himself (or full fee would have been charged) but would have passed on the installations documents either to main builder or yourself as all documentation would have been submitted together. Could be simple misunderstanding of who was doing what etc.
ericmark


Postby cutiecat » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:01 am

The building control is for the whole extension and wa submitted by the extension company. They also recommended the electrician but that work was not carried out under their contract (if that makes sense) I employed the eletrician myself. He then gave me the paperwork and I forwarded it to the extension company. THey then forwarded it to Camden Building Control.

As I understand it the extension company are meant to be providing me with the building regs certficate but have decided it is too much trouble to sort and adandonned the issue. Incidentally I have not paid them their last payment of £1k and am holding it until this is sorted.

As for the electrician, he never invoiced me for the work! So funnily enough I have never paid him. I have spoken to him several times over the last few months and told him I am happy to pay him when I have got the correct paper work.

I have been screwed over in the past by plumbers and learnt my lesson. I am very happy to pay for work done in my house but I am not having money over until I am sure the job is done.

As for the comments about checking credentials of workmen who do work for you I would never employ a plumber who was not Corgi reg or now a electrician who is not registered to Niceic or Elecsa et al. I don't think the system works and building control certaining don't know what is going on.

It is all very complicated for a full time Mum of two small children to sort out. I spent an hour composing an email to Camden yesterday and lets see what they come back with.

Thanks so much for all your comment. Makes me feel I am not alone.
cutiecat
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:55 pm


Postby sparx » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:14 pm

Hi Cutiecat, I was staying out of this as enough people 'on the case' but for what it's worth, the customer ordering the electrical work is responsible for notifying bldg control of any work covered under part-p electrical, was any of it notifiable ie did he put in any new circuits or was any of the work in a kitchen or bathroom? if not & only extensions to existing circuits tell council to go away! I presume he gave you some certificates which you passed on, if they where for minor works then thats enough. would be interested to know details of leckie work done and his details & post code!
regards SPARX
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Postby cutiecat » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:27 pm

Quick update:

Camden have said that they might now accept my Periodic certificate!

I just don't think they know what is going on and now want shot of me hassling me.
cutiecat
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:55 pm


Postby BLAKEY1963 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:54 am

[quote="cutiecat"]Quick update:

Camden have said that they might now accept my Periodic certificate!

I just don't think they know what is going on and now want shot of me hassling me.[/quote]

CUTIECAT
Thats good news , i am pleased they have agreed to conclude
this issue 4 u.

BLAKEY1963
BLAKEY1963
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:57 pm


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