Indirect vented Baxi system, ONLY ONE CISTERN.


Postby Mick3142 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:42 pm

Like the gent Mr Findlay on a nearby thread here. ''No hotwater Space heating OK'', my system has no hot water now but radiator line fine. The system I'm investigating is my Mums, installed early eighties. and has only one cistern honest! It is an indirect system just like the drawing on this site : 4 connections as described. I first got involved when my Dad was dying. Mum was trying to run a bath for him I gave her a hand with him noticed hot bath water was all brown. She was'nt even for trusting the water from the mixer taps. It turns out for years, shes been running up and downstairs to get drinking water from the bathroom. Also the heating was defective. I diagnosed radiator system blockage and tried to add Fernox - nowhere to add it! The one cistern is a big 'un and tops up the cylinder. I drained the whole crud system. Got the radiators up and working last winter by allowing flushing out by selective radiator removal. No drainout plugs. Full of black gunge. Now just freshwater. Theres still no inhibitor in there but it's working. Summer is here I'm redundant, not so sure I trust plumbers anymore, so its time to sort out this crud.
Disconnected convective hot water return to boiler after sealing off cistern and cold water into the house. Got a cylinder full of water down there not just the water from the ''primary circuit''. Finished draining down system. Disconnected cylinder. Full of brown crud and any water put into the primary circuit comes straight out the bottom hot water outlet. Therefore cylinder goosed by corrosion due, no doubt, to no inhibitor.
Now I'm a (ships) electrician, not a plumber and I'm not too keen on a profession that inflicts this crud on trusting old people!!! I would'nt do it! A system patently designed to fail. What I would like to know: where is the best place for me to retrofit this crap system with a suitable cistern to allow me to top up the primary circuit and radiator system with inhibitor, fit vent and the rest of it. I've ordered a new cylinder etc. I want to leave this system so my Mum can trust it and drink the water, and stay warm without getting Legionaires disease. Not just for her, but to spite Gordon Brown because he'd love it if all pensioners croaked as it saves money.
PS: Boiler is a Baxi WM551OF. No, I don't want to change it for a combi. Any well meant advice welcome. I've bought a book on central heating but its ''fuzzy'' on the cistern subject.
Cheers.
Mick3142
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:46 pm

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Postby stoneyboy » Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:05 am

Mick3142,
You do need to ensure that the heating system and hot water systems are completely separate - there should be two cold tanks one for each. Tie up the ball valve in the one cold water tank and run water out of the heating system - if the water in the tank goes down you have some major plumbing installation work to do.
end
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Postby Mick3142 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:32 pm

[quote="stoneyboy"]Mick3142,
You do need to ensure that the heating system and hot water systems are completely separate - there should be two cold tanks one for each. Tie up the ball valve in the one cold water tank and run water out of the heating system - if the water in the tank goes down you have some major plumbing installation work to do.
end[/quote]

Aye Sir, thankyou for that, it did go down sadly and like you say serious reconfigure required. Currently I've mapped out the system and studied the one at my own house, properly done by a respected plumber Ron, who sadly is now sorting out St.Patricks plumbing. If nothing else I now understand my own system. I never bothered before. I've decided to make the best of the situation and upgrade to a ''solar'' 210 LTR cistern (made by Megalife) relocated to the old coal store room in the house and convert this to an airing cupboard at ground level. The Megalife cannot use the old gravity feed in any case needing to be pumped. The redesign allows the bathroom to be reconfigured (i.e. use old airing cupboard space) so mum can have a sit down showerbath as she gets older. I'm currently making the platform for 1) the upgraded cistern capacity for the hotwater and 2) the indirect system and heating (fernox containing) cistern. I'll add the solar heating (drainback system) in the loft later. Putting the 22mm tubes for it in the lower storeys first. I've also started adding isolators that were non existent before so I can move on in stages. I found out the house two doors away from my mums was done by the same comedians as did hers and their system has failed almost simultaneously in the very same way. They are young people only just moved in. I felt very sorry for them, but, able to be effusive with info (everythings relative) they now think I'm the resident plumbing expert! LOL.
Mick3142
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:46 pm


Postby chris_on_tour2002 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:10 am

"Now I'm a (ships) electrician, not a plumber and I'm not too keen on a profession that inflicts this crud on trusting old people!!! I would'nt do it! A system patently designed to fail."

i feel your frustration but that's a little harsh. you said the system was installed in the eighties and, by your own admission, has not been adequately maintained. i'd say that the system is due for failure and replacement and has nothing to do with being designed to have a protracted life expectancy.

"I've also started adding isolators that were non existent before so I can move on in stages. I found out the house two doors away from my mums was done by the same comedians as did hers and their system has failed almost simultaneously in the very same way."

Ditto. i'd also add that 20 years ago it was not common practice to put isolator/service valves on absolutely everything as it is now. to find service valves on a system of its age would be more of a pleasant surprise to any plumber that is called in to work on it - though they'd most likely be seized up, won't turn and therefore useless by now anyway unless they'd been operated at regular intervals.

my overall point is that, whilst i understand your frustration, not all plumbers are cowboys or "comedians" there are fly-by-nights of course as you will find in all professions.

most plumbers are honest and hard working and some of them give up part of their free time on a regular basis to contribute to this site and offer advice to those struggling and i have to say that the advice they give is the best you'll find.

i just find it a little odd that your post is so generally damning of the profession that you are asking for help.
chris_on_tour2002
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Postby Mick3142 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:08 pm

Aye, mate admittedly I was 'shooting from the hip' somewhat. However, I still believe the guys who did my mums and her neighbours installations were comedians, as there should have been a maintainable system i.e. with dedicated top up loft tanks etc for the radiator line etc. The main problem was my Dad not employing local good reputation guys. I'm not sure where he got them. If I'd been there I'd have recommended Ron, my now sadly deceased plumber, who did my system, which is a good installation, complicated compared to most domestic systems due to my youthful ideas, full of Pegler and Honeywell valves (Must test them now you mention it). As the other gentleman, Stoney, pointed out, my Mums needs a significant reconfigure as the Hot Water top up tank tops up the entire system, and I'm underway with it in my plodding way. Decided its a good time to move it with the times. As I'm on the Old King Cole anyway. If Ron had done this system it would still be working and we would'nt be discussing it. These systems should last for a long time! Its funny, I hardly need central heating anymore due to 'global warming' - just the hotwater. Maybe I should just swap houses with Mum.
Live long Sir and all good plumbers.
Mick3142
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:46 pm


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