Lighting in conservatory


Postby bristol » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:43 pm

Hope someone can help.
Previous owner of our house removed a spotlight and ceiling fan from the conservatory - left tidied up wires where the fan was, and replaced the spotlight with a crappy replacement.
All I want to do, is instal a couple of pendant single bulb light fittings.
The existing light was fine - just a single cable with LNE which I connected to the pendant set.
The other bit has flummoxed me though - 2 cables, each with LN&E plus a bare cable - I no doubt misread the instructions that came with the pendant set, but it said:

2 x Earth into earth screw
2 x neutral into neutral block
2 x live into loop block
1 x switch cable into live block
1 x switch cable into loop block

It also referred to a switch cable going into the neutral 'block but there wasn't another cable.

I assumed that the bare wires were the switch ones?

Surprise surprise it tripped when I put the power back on - I switched the bare cables over but same result.

Any thoughts please?

Cheers

Neil
bristol
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:43 pm

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Postby ericmark » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:17 am

Earth cables are often bare and the installer has to fit earth sleeve which should be coloured green and yellow.

Line cable is either red or brown and with most light fittings does not connect direct to light.

Neutral is either black or blue.

Switch line should be red or brown but in practice that is rare and is often black or blue same colours as neutral. It should be sleeved red or brown but often the sleeve is missing. This cable causes more problems than any other where people connect it up with neutrals causing a short once light is switched on.

So yes

2 x Earth into earth screw (normally bare) (often three or four if earth on pendent)
2 x neutral into neutral block (normally black or blue) (plus pendent)
2 x live into loop block (normally red or brown) (often three)
1 x switch cable into live block (normally red or brown)
1 x switch cable into loop block (plus pendent) (likely be black or blue with red or brown sleeve)

Since the ceiling rose is often also a junction box to next lamp it often has three cables. Power in, Power out to next lamp, To switch. The numbers the instruction gave do not add up as seen from my comments.

I seem to remember this site has a "Projects" section with some pictures but we are not allowed to post pictures or links so you will have to look yourself.
ericmark
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:49 pm
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Postby bristol » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:29 am

Thanks Eric - each cable has a bare wire which I presume is earth, and a red, blue and yellow wire, I presume the blue is neutral and the red live, so is the yellow the switch?
bristol
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:43 pm


Postby ericmark » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:21 pm

Although Red, Yellow, Blue triple core cable is often used with two way and intermittent switching there are no fixed colour code for them and the installer should fit sleeves to identify their use.

It is not normal to take triple and earth to the lamp. Normally it only goes between switches. One exception is supply to bathroom fan.

There are methods where an extra terminal is required in the ceiling rose where two way lighting can be wired back to the lamp but to try to explain without being able to post diagrams is only likely to confuse.

So I would think you have a non standard system and really the only way especially on a forum without pictures is to say call in an electrician.

You could try a different forum where pictures are allowed but I still would not hold up too many hopes of working out what you have unless you have taken photos before you removed.
ericmark
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:49 pm
Location: Mold, North Wales.


Postby bristol » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:38 pm

Thanks Eric

There was an electric fan originally but the bloke removed it before I moved in - all he did was connect all the same colours together in blocks ie both reds, both blues both bare and both yellows, so no fitting to work from, just two cables coming out of the ceiling!
bristol
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:43 pm


Postby ericmark » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:34 pm

Although we can guess you have:-
Permanent line
Switched line
and neutral
The only way is to test it. There is no laid down colours. In the past I have tried to guide people and there have ended up in knots so sorry its a get some one in job.
ericmark
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:49 pm
Location: Mold, North Wales.


Postby bristol » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:36 am

Eric

I reckon you're right - thanks for trying to help though its appreciated.
bristol
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:43 pm


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