moving sockets and switches in kitchen


Postby dave475 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:18 pm

In installing new kitchen I need to move 3 items 300mm at the same horizontal level. These are an appliance switch (connnecting to single socket for fan), a double socket, and a 45A cooker swtch with single socket. Can i do this using connector blocks and additional wiring ? horizontal wiring OK ? Existing area is tiled so if I use cover plates over replaced locations can I tile over ?
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Postby kbrownie » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:49 pm

Hi dave475,
sorry to tell you that this work now comes under Part P of building regs and has to comply to them, you need a qualified electrician in to do the work.
Kind Regards
KB
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Postby ericmark » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:21 am

As said this is now under Part P. As to connector blocks these need to be assessable so normally crimps are used. I theory you can go horizontal but in practice not a good idea. Normally one identifies the likely run of a cable by where it terminates and if you go horizontal after vertical then there is a chance mistakes will be made in the future and someone may drill or nail through the cables. Also 45amp cooker switch is very heavy load and slightest mistake could easily cause a fire. All electrical jobs should be tested and the meters required are expensive and require certificates showing traceable testing of meters so are not normally hired or lent which even if there was no Part P means any normal DIY person can't do the jobs safely. Once the jobs are complete the electrician will either fill in one big set of papers or three small sets of papers and they are given to person ordering works and Building Control the latter my be thou a clearing agent if they are registered. Some kitchen fitters have become registered but most now employ electrical firms.
ericmark

Postby dave475 » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:23 am

Hi Kbrownie

Thanks for the response I am aware of the regulations and the need for a qualified electrician. I have an electrical background but am not qualified. At this stage I am trying to scope the work and undersatand how it should be undertaken. This will help with planning other kitchen work.

regards

D
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Postby rosebery » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:41 am

Well he COULD do it himself provided that he's advised building control exactly what he wants to do, they agree it and he pays the fee for them to come and see it afterwards but what they give him WONT be a proper Part P Certificate.

The fact that the OP is suggesting connector block and extra bits of cable says to me that he really SHOULDNT do it himself at all. There are rules about horizontal cabling as well.

Get someone in Gary - at least 3 to give you a quote.

Cheers
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Postby kbrownie » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:18 pm

Hi Dave
you could do it yourself, as has been suggested earlier which is a fair point, but the Local Council will Charge about £150 for you to do this little job.
Money which may as well be spent on a qualified part p electrician to do it, then it will be inspected and tested correctly you will get the proper paper work to say this work has been carried out etc...
but that is just a side note to your question.
You can go horizontal, but you will have to put face plates on the original back boxes and they should not be tiled over for reason all ready mentioned regarding safe zones. if you buried the cable into wall 50mm from any exposed side could be okay or protected cable with metal channel or metal conduit that's another way around it.
Good Luck
KB
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Postby johne449 » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:19 am

Hi Dave,
I agree with most of what kbrownie says, however, I believe and backed up by reference books such as the IEE electricians guide to the building regulations, that the cable does not need to be protected with metal channel etc although it might be a good idea.
BS7671 522-06-06
offers cable protection by metal channel etc as a method
- but section iv states
Where the cable is connected to a point , accessory , or switchgear on any surface of the wall or partition, the cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically to the point, accessory or switchgear.

It is however crystal clear that any diagonal runs must be 2" deep or protected.
Regards
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Postby ericmark » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:46 am

I have looked at 522-06-06 (ii) be installed within 150 mm of the top of the wall or partition or within 150 mm of an angle formed by two adjoining walls or partitions. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on the wall or partition, the cable may be installed outside these zones only in a straight run either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear. This does not allow a vertical followed by a horizontally it is either or not both.
The links to Part P are on the Projects section both under building regulations and Part P.
We have talked about metal protection and I was under the impression it has to be able to stop one putting a nail through it and since the metal channel is nailed to the wall one may interpret this as not being good enough?
The Zone is at corners and ceiling not either side of straight cable run.
If you read the Part P the installation certificate must be signed by person doing the installing and also you must be qualified to sign it so who ever does the job in a kitchen will know the rules anyway so since it can't be done with DIY following the rules it all becomes academic. Unless he lives in Scotland.
ericmark

Postby kbrownie » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:33 am

johne449 is correct and this was referred to in an earlier post, by eric.
But your vertical and horizontal safe zones still need to be identified by the face plates or how could you guess where the cables are that is the reason for mechanical protection being installed. (unlees 50mm or more in to wall) which could cause problem on the other side of wall.
I believe the 17th edition touches on this, and amendments been made to this reg. But as it stand at the moment that is how I interpirate 16th ed.
Any feedback appreciated
KB
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