New type of Cistern?


Postby tcwh1971 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:42 pm

Hi everyone,
I joined in the hope somebody can help me out here, so here goes...
I was recently at B&Q looking into buying a new toilet, or ideally a new cistern. I intend to install myself as a sort of project so I'm new to this.

I understand the mechanics of a toilet: you have an overflow pipe; the water flow from the cistern and lastly, the water pipe which fills the cistern after each flush. (I won't include the screw holes, obviously.) I was looking at what looked like a new type of cistern, and discovered it only has two main holes: the water flow pipe in the middle and what I thought to be an overflow pipe as it was on the left (aren't all overflow pipes on the left of a cistern?) It also had a single button flush on top.

Anyway, I came away thinking why has it only got two holes? The shop assistant didn't seem to know much about it. Then I thought I remember seeing something about a built in overflow system thing on the box which presumably would make the over flow pipe redundant? I'm assuming that all water pipes that fill the cistern on flushing are always on the right, as it has to come from somewhere. If I bought this cistern I just want advice and want to double check that I would obviously have to connect a flexi pipe to the copper water pipe allow me to extend the connection to the cistern on the opposite side? I'm curious to know if that is the correct procedure to follow and can anyone offer any further help on this. Many thanks!
tcwh1971
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Postby rosebery » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:44 pm

"I was looking at what looked like a new type of cistern, and discovered it only has two main holes: the water flow pipe in the middle and what I thought to be an overflow pipe as it was on the left (aren't all overflow pipes on the left of a cistern?) It also had a single button flush on top."

They are not new - been around for some considerable time.

"Then I thought I remember seeing something about a built in overflow system thing on the box which presumably would make the over flow pipe redundant?"

Yes you are right. This type does not require a separate overflow pipe. If it does overflow the water goes down the centre of the valve assembly into the toilet bowl.

"I'm assuming that all water pipes that fill the cistern on flushing are always on the right, as it has to come from somewhere."

Can be right or left it doesn't matter. Some have two holes in the bottom for the filling valve one left and one right. You just bung (there should be one supplied) the one you re not using. Actually the fitting is a bit more sophisticated than a bung but you get my drift.

"If I bought this cistern I just want advice and want to double check that I would obviously have to connect a flexi pipe to the copper water pipe allow me to extend the connection to the cistern on the opposite side? I'm curious to know if that is the correct procedure to follow and can anyone offer any further help on this. Many thanks!"

I would say that if its only got a single hole for the inlet try and make sure you buy one that has the inlet on the side that your supply pipe is currently situated. If not you would be better to repipe to the other side rather than running an unsightly flexy over the top or underneath the soil outlet. Don't forget you'll need to fit a service valve. I tend to use those with the tap connector on one end for loos.

Now my REAL concern is that there is precious little chance of a new cistern actually fitting your existing loo pan properly. The porcelain is usually made so that they are a matched pair. If not then you'll have problems varying from getting a proper seal at the "doughnut" with subsequent leaks to a "gunshot" in the middle of the night when the cistern cracks due to the stresses you have put on it just before it proceeds to dump its contents all over the floor.

HTH

Cheers
rosebery
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Postby tcwh1971 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:10 am

Thanks very much for your reply. I thought I'd try and save some money by just buying the cistern but perhaps you are right. I had thought whether fitting the new cistern would cause an issue with the older other half. The new cistern is narrower than the old one and the water pipe would most certainly require a flexy pipe to allow for a proper fitting. The old cistern is a plastic crappy thing which you can't buy parts for anymore (I tried). The seal (doughnut part, is more of a rubber 'bolt like' shape that fits over the plastic thread beneath the cistern). I took the cistern off once before to dismantle the box around it which I am replacing too, and in doing so discovered that the bolt like' seal was crumbling apart.

I bought a doughnut part before but it was way too thick and the wrong size. (nightmare). Anyway, if I take it apart again I know the seal that's rotting will just fall apart as it was when I took it off first. When I put it together again I used some sealant to help keep it from leaking and it's worked so far.

Repiping sounds tricky to me. Does that involve welding? lol. It's a copper pipe and that's all I know. I no nothing about repiping. When you say 'Service Valve' do you mean a connection valve that has a bit you turn with a screwdriver to cut off the water supply to the cistern? The water supply pipe has this.

Maybe I should just invest in a totally new toilet but I don't have a lot to spend. Thanks again for your help :)
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Postby rosebery » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:21 am

"Thanks very much for your reply. I thought I'd try and save some money by just buying the cistern but perhaps you are right. I had thought whether fitting the new cistern would cause an issue with the older other half. The new cistern is narrower than the old one and the water pipe would most certainly require a flexy pipe to allow for a proper fitting. The old cistern is a plastic rubbish thing which you can't buy parts for anymore (I tried). The seal (doughnut part, is more of a rubber 'bolt like' shape that fits over the plastic thread beneath the cistern). I took the cistern off once before to dismantle the box around it which I am replacing too, and in doing so discovered that the bolt like' seal was crumbling apart.

I bought a doughnut part before but it was way too thick and the wrong size. (nightmare). Anyway, if I take it apart again I know the seal that's rotting will just fall apart as it was when I took it off first. When I put it together again I used some sealant to help keep it from leaking and it's worked so far."

Everything you say here says to me you should buy a complete toilet.

"Repiping sounds tricky to me."

No its not really.

"Does that involve welding? lol. It's a copper pipe and that's all I know. I no nothing about repiping."

Not it doesn't have to involve soldering. If you get under the floorboards, cut the existing and extend using compresson fittings if you are not comfortable with soldering. Alterbnatively buy a toilet with the inlet valve on the side where the present supply is situated or an either/or alterative as my previous post.

"When you say 'Service Valve' do you mean a connection valve that has a bit you turn with a screwdriver to cut off the water supply to the cistern? The water supply pipe has this."

Yes that's exactly what I mean. If uyou can utilise this you just need to turn off and turn on again when you've replaced.

"Maybe I should just invest in a totally new toilet but I don't have a lot to spend."

I really think you should. The "sheds" have come up with the concept of a "toilet-to-go". B&Q currently have one on offer (complete thing) for £ 45. I'd go for it if I were you.

"Thanks again for your help :)"

Au plaisir.
rosebery
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