part 'p' regs

Postby jary » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:34 pm

hi can anyone offer any advice

I have reciently added a new two story extension to the rear of my house.
The information i was given, and from my interpretation of the part P doc i downloaded, sugested that it was permissable to do the electrics myself, (i am not qualified, but am capable of extending a ring).
As i have only extended the rings both downstairs and up and also the light circuits, therefore as no new circuit added i interpreted this as permissable the new rooms are bedroom and dining. I believed the only Part 'p' requirement would be for the extractor fan in the relocated bathroom.
However the building inspector is now asking for part p cert for completion.
Do i indeed require a part p for the bed and dining?
If so can i get over it with a periodic inspection?

Many thanks
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Simply Build It

Postby BLAKEY1963 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:04 am

if u get the advice of a part p elecrician, then he might do you
a periodic inspection certificate.
on it would be any remeadial work required to comply with part p
and bs7671

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Postby sparx » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:44 pm

Hi Jary, it's great when even the LABC don't know their own rules!!!
There is no such thing as a 'part-p certificate'!
I agree that except for the fan you can indeed extend circuits yourself without it coming under P-P regs, he can request a P.I. to give proof of the circuits validity, this would be an IEE cert.
The fan is a problem as if you intended to do this P-P work you should have told LABC before starting work, paid their fee and that would have been OK as they would have inspected it at 1st & 2nd fix. Alternatively a P-P registered Leckie could have done it for you & he could 'self-certify ' his own work & register it online to LABC via his authorising Body, (ECA, NAPIT, Elecsa, or NICEIC). Unfortunately no P-P leckie can register work he has not personally done, the only way apart from a P.I. might be a 3 part completion cert where you sign for the
Brave /friendly sparky signs for
3} Inspection/test part.
Ask Building insp. what he will accept, He may pick one of these options,
regards SPARX
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Postby ericmark » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:18 pm

sparx is spot on. The building inspector does not really know what he needs or he would not ask for a part P. If you give him any documentation then he will properly accept it. As sparx says there is a form which allows three people to sign as designer, installer, and tester and this will properly stratify the inspector who does not really know what he needs.
In real terms all electrical installations should be tested nothing to do with Part P and to get someone with the expensive test equipment to ensure all is safe is what any upright person should do. I know how I would feel if any of my family were injured as a result of any mistake I made.

Yours Eric

Postby jary » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:47 pm

(hope this isnt a duplication system timed out on submission)
To clarify, the extension of the light and ring main are already completed
( and plastered over, so inspection/access not really possible).
The bathroom is conversion of an existing bedroom, (which planning kindly class as seperate work to the extension, therefore you guessed it a seperate fee applies) as yet i have only cut the aperture and replastered for the fan, as i antisipated i would require part 'P'.
If the fan install is carried out and self certified by a sparky.
Is that the only requirement building control would need to sign off for completion
Would a periodic inspection be the correct check to have, but being done only as a precortion, rather than a requirement?

Though both acceplable where would you consider to be correct to take the fan feed, both a spare mcb at the consumer unit and the upstairs light ring are easy to access from the loft space, i can then clear the path.

Lastly when this is all finished the kitchen will be i need of a facelift, this will almost certainly involve that damm part 'P' again. As this dosn,t concern building control and only gets self certified on-line does it only ever get checked either if and when i were to sell, or in the event of an insurance claim.
If it does not get checked what purpose does it serve.

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Postby sparx » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:47 pm

Hi Paul, it really is bad that after 2plus years of part p BC and others still don't understand principal!GOV to blame for poor publicity of course.
If a Leckie who is registered with a part p scheme provider does the work, he registers on-line to his scheme operator at end of job, no reference to LABC at all before,during or after work, he is responsible for design,install, insp/test. giving you test sheets. Scheme operator sends notification to BC, & a copy to you to prove job registered, that's the end of it, you just say to bldg inspector that's the way its being done & he has no involvement with electrical work.
As for fan wiring it is up to you how it is connected (or P-P sparky).
If timer run-on required then it must come from light fitting to get perm. & sw. lives plus N from same circuit, also if room has no natural light(window) then fan must go thro' local isolator sw. so for maintenance light can stay on whilst fan switched off, hope this answers some ??s
regards SPARX
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Postby ericmark » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:48 am

It I have read the Part P stuff right the firm that the Part P sparky is registered with is to forward results to Local authority. Main difference between registered spark and non registered spark is the need to inform the Local authority first with non emergency work. Nothing to do with Part P is the time between inspection and tests, houses are allow double the time to anything else being every 10 years or change in occupant. So when you sell house it needs doing anyway. Of course finding faults could really mess up sale and know one really said if old occupant or new occupant should do test. Now it seems a pack system is being introduced so may be that will be sorted in near future. With freedom of information act I suppose a buyer may request the paperwork from the council not sure never tried. It is what is considered as a pass. Done correct I don't think a single house would ever get clean bill of health. Something is always wrong like not replacing plaster under light fitting I would think it is rare for any spark to replace that plaster but any pedantic inspector can always quote the regulations below and people get very worried even though really its normal.

527-01-02 The wiring system shall be installed so that the general building structural performance and fire safety are not materially reduced. 527-02-01 Where a wiring system passes through elements of building construction such as floors, walls, roofs, ceilings, partitions or cavity barriers, the openings remaining after passage of the wiring system shall be sealed according to the degree of fire resistance required of the element concerned (if any). 527-02-02 Where a wiring system such as conduit, cable ducting, cable trunking, busbar or busbar trunking penetrates elements of building construction having specified fire resistance it shall be internally sealed so as to maintain the degree of fire resistance of the respective element as well as being externally sealed to maintain the required fire resistance. A non flame propagating wiring system having a maximum internal cross-section of 710 mm² need not be internally sealed. Except for fire resistance over one hour, this regulation is satisfied if the sealing of the wiring system concerned has been type-tested by the method specified in BS 476-23.

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