Penetrating Damp


Postby B Woodruffe » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:42 pm

Hi,

Any advice on this would be appreciated please. I have an old 1900 Victorian mid terrace that has damp patches in the upstairs bedroom, approx 25ft above ground level! All research suggests this is penetrating damp, is that correct?

The walls are two bricks on the outside skin, a cavity and then one brick on the inside skin. The cavity has been checked, emptied and an air brick and vent put in the bedroom and outside wall to encourage airflow.

The damp patches only started appearing after we had the old wooden frames taken out and uPVC units put in. The damp seems to leech in from where the wooden window frame joins the internal wall into the bedroom. I am thinking that the window fitters must have really wrenched the old frames out and loosened the overall fixings to the wall allowing a small gap for water to enter by capillary action. I have tried to seal along the external wall frame to wall join with a silicon based sealent and it seemed to do some good.......until today!

The snow melted very quickly here and there was a huge amount of water running down the side of the house, the typical damp patches were seen on the internal bedroom wall but more worryingly was the drips which started to appear in the room below! Gouging away a bit of plaster has revealed that the water has soaked a long way into the internal skin and bricks.

I have a number of questions really, should/could I use one of these clear silicon waterproof shields on the bricks outside and will this stop it?

Is it really possible for enough water to soak through bricks to cause a substantial drip or could it be a more traditional leak somewhere in the roof/guttering?

The water only seems to enter the bay in the bedroom where the wooden frame joins the wall. The 2 feet above the frame up to the ceiling are completely dry.

This is really doing my head in and I'm petrified it's going to cost a small fortune to fix so any advice please, plus I have a photo of the situation if my dodgy explanation does not suffice :)

Thanks in advance,

Ben.

[/img]
B Woodruffe
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Postby ALDA » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:35 pm

BW,

I'M CONFUSED HERE, DO YOU HAVE UPVC OR TIMBER FRAMES?

ARE YOU SAYING THAT UPVC WINDOWS ARE INSTALLED WITHIN EXISTING TIMBER FRAMES?

IF THE WINDOWS/FRAMES ARE UPVC, THEN HAVE THEY BEEN FULLY SEALED COMPLETELY AROUND FRAME TO BRICKWORK?

IF AS YOU SAY, EXCESSIVE FORCE HAS BEEN USED TO REMOVE OLD FRAMES, THEN BRICKS AND MORTAR JOINTS CAN BE SLIGHTLY DISLODGED, ALLOWING WATER TO PENERTRATE AND FIND ITS WAY INTO THE WINDOW REVEAL/INNER BRICK RETURN AND OUT INTO THE PLASTER.

ALSO, CHECK THAT DRAIN HOLES IN FRAMES ACTUALLY DRAIN WATER TO OUTSIDE AND NOT DRAINING INTO CAVITY!!!

HAVE YOU RAISED YOUR CONCERNS WITH THE INSTALLER?
INSTALLER IS AFTER ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR ENSURING THERE IS NO WATER INGRESS HERE.

ALDA.
ALDA
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Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:15 pm


Postby Alvin Wyllie » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:45 pm

[quote="B Woodruffe"]Hi,

Any advice on this would be appreciated please. I have an old 1900 Victorian mid terrace that has damp patches in the upstairs bedroom, approx 25ft above ground level! All research suggests this is penetrating damp, is that correct?

The walls are two bricks on the outside skin, a cavity and then one brick on the inside skin. The cavity has been checked, emptied and an air brick and vent put in the bedroom and outside wall to encourage airflow.

The damp patches only started appearing after we had the old wooden frames taken out and uPVC units put in. The damp seems to leech in from where the wooden window frame joins the internal wall into the bedroom. I am thinking that the window fitters must have really wrenched the old frames out and loosened the overall fixings to the wall allowing a small gap for water to enter by capillary action. I have tried to seal along the external wall frame to wall join with a silicon based sealent and it seemed to do some good.......until today!

The snow melted very quickly here and there was a huge amount of water running down the side of the house, the typical damp patches were seen on the internal bedroom wall but more worryingly was the drips which started to appear in the room below! Gouging away a bit of plaster has revealed that the water has soaked a long way into the internal skin and bricks.

I have a number of questions really, should/could I use one of these clear silicon waterproof shields on the bricks outside and will this stop it?

Is it really possible for enough water to soak through bricks to cause a substantial drip or could it be a more traditional leak somewhere in the roof/guttering?

The water only seems to enter the bay in the bedroom where the wooden frame joins the wall. The 2 feet above the frame up to the ceiling are completely dry.

This is really doing my head in and I'm petrified it's going to cost a small fortune to fix so any advice please, plus I have a photo of the situation if my dodgy explanation does not suffice :)

Thanks in advance,

Ben.

[/img][/quote]Hi, I hope I'm replying in the correct place. I posted a message today with a problem I had which may be related to yours. My window frames would originally have been wood (my house was built around 1922) and replaced I believe around 20 years ago with UPVC double glazing. I suspect in my case the cill/sill under the window frames might not have been properly sealed at the ends and someone applied silicon or similar to any gap he saw, including the drainage slot along the length of the frame. Hope this helps!
Alvin Wyllie
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:39 am


Postby B Woodruffe » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:26 pm

Hi Alda,

The frames are the original ones built with the house, they run on a huge bay from the top to the bottom of the property. Originally it had sash windows, I've seen the casings where the weights used to live. These were removed well before we moved in and a simple single glazed unit was put in in their place and screwed into the existing frame. We had these single glazed units taken out and a uPVC unit put in their place. They have been attached to the original wood of the bay.

The only sealing I have done is outside, along the join of the bay to the brickwork, as far as I am aware no one else has put silicon anywhere they shouldn't have done.

Ben.
B Woodruffe
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:08 pm


Postby ALDA » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:02 pm

BEN,

I HAVE NEVER COME ACROSS THIS SITUATION BEFORE WHERE THE EXISTING TIMBER FRAME IS STILL IN POSITION AND THE UPVC FRAME INSTALLED WITHIN.

AS THERE ARE NOW MORE INTERFACES WITH THE POTENTIAL FOR SOURCES OF WATER INGRESS IT MAKES THE SEARCH DOUBLEY DIFFICULT.

YOU NEED TO CHECK ALL INTERFACES/JOINS HAVE BEEN SEALED.
UPVC TO TIMBER AND TIMBER TO BRICKWORK.

YOU SHOULD ALSO CHECK ON THE CONDITION OF THE TIMBER, AS IF THIS IS DETERIORATING, IT MAY WELL BE ACTING LIKE A SPONGE AND ABSORBING WATER INTO THE INTERIOR.
(THE INSTALLER SHOULD HAVE CHECKED FOR THIS BEFORE FITTING NEW FRAMES).

YOU SHOULD ALSO LOOK FOR ANY BRICKWORK/MORTAR JOINT CRACKS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN CAUSED DURING THE UPVC INSTALATION.

REGARDS,

ALDA.
ALDA
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:15 pm


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