shower flow to ensuit


Postby tools1234 » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:01 pm

This may make you all think. I have a shower pump fitted in the loft. supplies to the bathroom and ensuit..To get the water to flow from the ensuit shower i have to turn it on and no water flows no pump running. I then have to go to the bathroom turn the tap on then off which starts the pump and then we have water flowing from the ensuit shower.If i turn off the ensuit shower water flow the pump stops which one would expect, however if i then turn the ensuit shower back on once again no pump and no water flow.so its back to to the bathroom.. HELP......we have had two plumbers out still no joy.
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Postby bobplum » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:13 pm

hi
can you tell us what make and type of pump?
is it actually supplying the bathroom and ensuit shower?,do you have a shower in the bathroom
is the bathroom nearest the pump?
if you can supply this info and anything else people may be able to diagnose the problem better
thanks
bob
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Postby rosebery » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:41 pm

Negative head pump or positive?

If it's positive which I suspect ten will get you five that the take off for the shower is off the vent pipe of your cylinder and theres no gravity loop fitted.

I'll hazard another guess that the hot supply to the bathroom is teed of the same pipe that feeds the pump.

Air is being drawn into the pipework through the vent which is preventing flow to the pump. Flow switches on pump detect no flow so pump doesn't run.

Opening the hot tap is enough to draw water through which reaches the pump and then it runs.

In other words it sounds as though it's piped incorrectly.

Cheers
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Postby tools1234 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:13 pm

Hi ref the shower flow problem....it is fitted with a heavy duty pump it had been changed upgraded. It is suppling the bathroom and ensuit. The bathroom has a mixer tap type shower and the ensuit has a thermostaic control and supply control. The bathroom is nearest the pump which in the loft.. Also this can be a intermitant problem there has been times when the shower in the ensuit worked straight away then later that day it would not. The pump is a salamander....
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Postby rosebery » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:55 am

Ok thanks so how has it been piped. Off the vent? Flange in the tank?

Where is the takeoff for the hot tap?

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Postby tools1234 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:03 pm

The pipe work for the pump is piped out of the top of the hot water cylinder
The feed for the hot taps is taken from the original pipe which is suitated below the feed to the shower pump. I beleive a S flange has been fitted in the top.

[quote="rosebery"]Ok thanks so how has it been piped. Off the vent? Flange in the tank?

Where is the takeoff for the hot tap?

Cheers[/quote]
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Postby rosebery » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:58 am

Mmm so I was wrong in my initial assumption.

By S flange I'm guessing you mean Surrey flange? In that case there is no way that air should be being drawn in.

"The feed for the hot taps is taken from the original pipe which is suitated below the feed to the shower pump."

Could you explain that a little better please as I can't quite visualise it from your description.

Cheers
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Postby tools1234 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:36 am

with the s flange fitted in the top of the cylinder the feed to the pump is taken out from the top of the flange. the feed that comes out at 90 degrees supplies the feed to the taps.




[quote="rosebery"]Mmm so I was wrong in my initial assumption.



By S flange I'm guessing you mean Surrey flange? In that case there is no way that air should be being drawn in.

"The feed for the hot taps is taken from the original pipe which is suitated below the feed to the shower pump."

Could you explain that a little better please as I can't quite visualise it from your description.

Cheers[/quote]
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Postby rosebery » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:45 pm

"with the s flange fitted in the top of the cylinder the feed to the pump is taken out from the top of the flange. the feed that comes out at 90 degrees supplies the feed to the taps."

Ah ha! The pipwork to the flange is connected the the wrong way round. You are almost certainly drawing air in down the vent. So i was sort of half right then.

Change the connections. Top connection to vent with taps teed off from it. 90 deg connection to pump. Do it soon or you'll knacker the pump.

I'll send my account later. LoL


Cheers
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Postby plumbbob » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:33 pm

Have you checked to see if the ensuite shower has a negative head? If it is, unless the pump is adapted the lack of flow will result in the pump not being triggered. Also, turning on a hot tap elsewhere may kick the pump in to action, and that is a symptom you describe.
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Postby rosebery » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:47 am

Should have added last night:

What truly amazes me is that two "plumbers" have been to see it and haven't spotted that its is piped incorrectly. Hope you didn't pay them very much!

Cheers
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Postby rosebery » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:48 am

Bob

I asked about negative head further up the thread. There hasn't been an answer yet.

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Postby tools1234 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:06 am

Can you explain what.. shower has negitive head means?
Plus if it has what has to be done to the pump. I have a feeling that there is a couple of Faults with this shower problem so i am keen to find as many optiions to the problem as i can. ...
Rosebury has confimed my feeling and info to the connections on the top of the hot cylinder. Why its been left like it by a plumber is a strange one..
I am thankful for all this help i will tackle this as soon as i have covered the last few points.

[quote="plumbbob"]Have you checked to see if the ensuite shower has a negative head? If it is, unless the pump is adapted the lack of flow will result in the pump not being triggered. Also, turning on a hot tap elsewhere may kick the pump in to action, and that is a symptom you describe.[/quote]
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Postby rosebery » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:44 pm

"Can you explain what.. shower has negitive head means?"

A negative head situation exists where the pumped outlet is in a position level or above the level of the cold water storage tank. That DOES NOT mean that the pump is higher up than the shower (which is how some interpret it). If your shower head is below the level of the tank you don't have to worry about the question.


"Why its been left like it by a plumber is a strange one."

I'd say incompetance myself but then again I'm not exactly renowned for my tact.


"I am thankful for all this help i will tackle this as soon as i have covered the last few points."

You should find that swapping the connections over will sort your problem out. There'll be a bit of pipework to do of course. Best of luck. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers
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Postby tools1234 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:08 pm

Just to let you know which will i feel confirms what you have told me..there is times when the pipework to the pump starts knocking at a regular beat this can be stoped by switching the electrical supply to the pump off. No i did not pay them but my friend has paid a lot of money to them..once again thanks....i think i become a plumber..


[quote="rosebery"]"Can you explain what.. shower has negitive head means?"

A negative head situation exists where the pumped outlet is in a position level or above the level of the cold water storage tank. That DOES NOT mean that the pump is higher up than the shower (which is how some interpret it). If your shower head is below the level of the tank you don't have to worry about the question.


"Why its been left like it by a plumber is a strange one."

I'd say incompetance myself but then again I'm not exactly renowned for my tact.


"I am thankful for all this help i will tackle this as soon as i have covered the last few points."

You should find that swapping the connections over will sort your problem out. There'll be a bit of pipework to do of course. Best of luck. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers[/quote]
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