They want to use plastic Conduit everywhere please Help


Postby Conduit Crazy » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:37 am

:cry:
I live in a house owned by Housing Trust and due to the new Electrical regs. 17th Edition they need to rewire the whole house and fits RCDs. They also want to put plastic conduit everywhere and I mean everywhere. I have spent alot of money making my home look nice and the last thing in the world I want is ugly plastic all over my home.It looks unsightly and I am so depressed at the prospect..The guy who came to tell me said there is no other way.. Surely there is a way? as the cables are in the walls already.I know it probaly will mean a lot of mess if they put them back in the walls but this has to be better than tons of thick and I mean thick plastic caseing everywhere both at the top and bottom and across the ceilings and from the plugs and up the stairs.. please help me,maybe I have to pay for something else to be done and roughly how much would it be?please reply as you can tell Im a women..
Conduit Crazy
Rank: Labourer
Progress to next rank:
0%
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:22 am

Sponsor

Simply Build It

Postby ericmark » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:55 am

I think we are missing something! 17th Edition also know as BS7671:2008 tells us if we bury cables in a wall at less than 50 mm which means really any cables buried in a wall they must either be done with a list of BS numbered cables all which include a earthed metallic covering or be protected by a 30ma earth leakage trip. Since all sockets have to be protected by an earth leakage trip and lights in the bathroom also need covering by earth leakage trip there are very few cables which could be surface mounted so earth leakage trips would not be required down stairs lights and immersion heater would be about only ones. And wiring in flexishield must be cheaper than plastic conduit so even if they didn't want to use RCD's for all cables plastic conduit seems daft. In most houses changing the consumer unit will mean all existing wiring will comply. The consumer units cost more about £60 to £250 according to how it is done but there is no way conduit can be cheaper than new consumer unit. There is a link in Projects section to main changes with 17th Edition. Also as yet 17th is not required and will not be required for any work already planned there must be more than your saying! For example concrete walls or something like that.
I will watch with interest All best Eric
ericmark

Postby sparx » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:56 pm

Hi I don't think they mean conduit as such, rather mini-trunking which is much cheaper than chasing in flush. Housing associations won't pay out for more than they have to, and self adhesive MT is cheaper than an approved sheathed cable Eric mentioned.
This sounds like a standard rewire with latest type consumer unit, probably upgrade earthing and surface wiring which is all the Regional Electricity Companies have ever offered.
The work will have been priced on that basis and the co. doing work will have been instructed by the landlord and be on a tight time scale, unless the existing wiring is in good conduit it would mean a lot of mess and making good & decorating which most tenants don't want.
Only hope is to contact housing trust and offer to pay difference to have yours flushed in, best be sitting down when they tell you the additional cost!!!!
sorry not much help but lots of houses are done surface & if done with some care doesn't have to look that bad!
regards SPARX
sparx
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 2166
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: The fifth continent.

Postby ericmark » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:00 pm

listen to what Sparx has to say he is far more into domestic than I am.

All best Eric
ericmark

Postby kbrownie » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:25 am

Hi all, is there something in the regulations about good workmanship, surely this can not be considered as good workmanship in a domestic property. The word aesthetics! comes to mind.
Don't allow this to be done!
Regards
KB
kbrownie
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:36 pm

Postby kuzz » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:53 pm

"Don't allow this to be done"????? What a silly thing to say. The house is owned by the housing trust. do you not think they have the right to protect there property from danger of fire or there tenant from death? I work for local authority and we do give our tenants the choice of full chop with all the mess that goes with it or mini trunking, which although ugly we do make every effort to keep tidy and to a minimum. sockets back to back, using cupboards, corners of rooms etc. But sometimes tenants don't get this choice because they might live in a flat, or prefab concrete house for example, it's unfortunate but not allowing it to be done is just not an option.
kuzz
Rank: Ganger
Progress to next rank:
56%
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:37 pm

Postby ericmark » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:20 pm

Looking at other comments there are two meanings to “Allowing it to be doneâ€
ericmark

Postby kbrownie » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:40 pm

Sounds like upset someone, the point i'm making is that Conduit Crazy woman, has looked after her house and spent time on it, making as she wants. I would not want my home to have trunking/conduit whether it be steel or plastic run through my home neither. Just because it's a house assoc. that owns it! Does not mean a hoot! They don't live in it and pay the rent and rates, i'm all for safety and if there's a danger of fire or electrical shock it needs to be sorted out.
Regulation say good workmanship! if someone came in to may rented property and suggested this installation I would not be happy! Presentaion matters too!
kbrownie
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:36 pm

Postby kbrownie » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:10 am

I feel it nessesary to defend myself and support conduit crazy.
Don't by any means think I was suggesting that the re-wire should not be done, if the installation is unsafe to person and property, it must be corrected!
It's the method in which it is intended to be installed, It sounds like conduit crazy has made an effort to keep her property in good order, so I don't give hoot if it belongs to a housing trust or the likes of them. I'm guessing this lady pays or contributes to the rent and rates.
We are not all fortunate enough to own our own property (if that is bonus these days? is another question) but that does not mean we should care any the less in how they are presented, internally and externally.
I'd expect if my rented property was having any work being done to it that the property and I should be shown respect.
The regulation say good workmanship, it's about presentation too! That's why I mentioned the word aesthetics.
Do you think that's wrong or even silly!
kbrownie
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:36 pm

Postby kuzz » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:59 pm

Think it all comes down to individual assumption here. Obviously she means mini trunking not conduit. But if they say it has to be done in trunking personally i would assume it's because it's the only option. It would be unreasonable to force trunking upon a house proud tenant if there was other options open, which you seem to be assuming is the case.
kuzz
Rank: Ganger
Progress to next rank:
56%
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:37 pm

Postby chris_on_tour2002 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:25 pm

[quote]I feel it nessesary to defend myself and support conduit crazy.[/quote]

no need to defend yourself, i think the rest of us understood what you meant by "don't allow this to be done" even if kuzz didn't. and one wonders, would kuzz settle for unsightly conduit everywhere in his or her home? somehow i doubt it.

i totally agree that just because it's housing association that does not mean that presentation is of less importance than a privately owned dwelling and as the tenant i'd take umbrage to that attitude. of course the HA has to consider costs and timescales but if the tenant is prepared to stump up the diff then why not do it as she wants (but as has already been said, be sitting down when they tell you the extra cost! and it's possible that they will over-inflate it in order to try and deter you)

with regard to the mess and timescale of chasing in, there are machines available that can chase and channel and come equipped with an extractor which really help in keeping the mess to a minimum. also greatly speeds up the job. i know they can't be used in all cases but might be worth considering.
chris_on_tour2002
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:14 pm

Postby sparx » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:14 pm

Kbrownie, slightly off subject but you touch on a point of interest.
14th & 15th edition of regs, had a statement near front which said
"Good workmanship is essential for compliance with these regulations"
Can't find it, or equivalent, in 16th or 17th eds. quoted it to young-un who challenged me to find it!!! any ideas???
regards SPARX
sparx
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 2166
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: The fifth continent.

Postby kbrownie » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:42 am

Hi sparx,
17th edition does quote, good workmanship by competent persons (134.1.1) It is also mentined in 16th. But like anything it is open to interpretation.
Back to original point: Sure the council will want it to be done on the cheap and the workman an easier install. But that don't make it right and i'm sure if you fingered through the regs you'd find something that would back it up, you'd also find a million and one things that didn't.
I think everyone gets the point i'm trying to make and i'd stand firm, it must be in the councils best interest in the long anyway to bury cables.
Regards
KB
kbrownie
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:36 pm

Postby ericmark » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:19 am

134.1.1 Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. Electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment.
It comes straight after Erection a little watered down from old one but still there. But Conduit Crazy has not returned so it seems we are all talking to our selves.
ericmark

Postby sparx » Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:11 pm

Well spotted KB, & good point EM think this has died. Whilst in part 1 I notice a statement I shall be giving copies of to any defined scope dudes I meet (kitchen fitters/plumbers/heating bods) ie 131.8
' No additions or alteration, temp. or permanent, shall be made to an existing installation, unless it has been ascertained that the rating & condition of any existing equipment, including that of the distributor, will be adaquate for the altered circumstances. Further more, the earthing & bonding arrangements, if necessary for the protective measure applied for the safety of the addition or alteration, shall be adequate'.
sparx
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 2166
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: The fifth continent.

Display posts from previous
Sort by
Order by



  • DIY How to Project Guides

  • DIY how to tutorial projects and guides - Did you know we have a DIY Projects section? Well, if no, then we certainly do! Within this area of our site have literally hundreds of how-to guides and tutorials that cover a huge range of home improvement tasks. Each page also comes with pictures and a video to make completing those jobs even easier!



 


  • Related Topics