Vaillant or Wocester?


Postby cerdyn » Sat May 03, 2008 10:52 am

Hi

I am getting different advice about which boiler to go for - a 824 ecotech + or a Greenstar 25Si. The only real difference in construction I've been given is the heat exchanger is made of different material - with perhaps stainless steel being preferable over aluminuim/silicon even though there is a 10 yr warranty! I started off leaning towards the Vaillant as it appeared to be the fitters choice but now I am loking favourably at the worcester as it appears to have a superior warranty, at the moment they are giving 5 years for a limited period.

I would be grateful for any views.

Many thanks - Steve
cerdyn
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:07 pm

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Postby htg engineer » Sat May 03, 2008 3:07 pm

Both Worcester and Vaillant are good boilers, so you can't go wrong. The warranty is important to most people, gives peace of mind. If that's important to you then the Worcester is probably the best for you.

As long as the installation is correct, the system is flushed, inhibitor added and you use a CORGI registered gas installer who sends of the paperwork and signs off the installation they will honour the warranty. Any of the above not done properly or at all - and the warranty is void.

Hope this helps
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Postby cerdyn » Mon May 05, 2008 8:21 am

[quote="htg engineer"]Both Worcester and Vaillant are good boilers, so you can't go wrong. The warranty is important to most people, gives peace of mind. If that's important to you then the Worcester is probably the best for you.

As long as the installation is correct, the system is flushed, inhibitor added and you use a CORGI registered gas installer who sends of the paperwork and signs off the installation they will honour the warranty. Any of the above not done properly or at all - and the warranty is void.

Hope this helps[/quote]

That does help and perhaps just what I need to make the decision. Thanks for not blinding me with science! I have had a number of Gorgi installers saying a power flush is not required and a chemical clean, inhibitor and the installation of a magnaclean or something called a Spiro vent would be sufficiant. I would be grateful if you would coment on this advice. If you carry out installations can you let me know what area you cover.

Again many thanks - Steve
cerdyn
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:07 pm


Postby htg engineer » Mon May 05, 2008 3:19 pm

Are you only changing the boiler or radiators and pipework too ?

A powerflush is only required if you have problems with sludge, radiators not heating, cold spots on radiators etc etc and when an old boiler is removed and radiators and pipework are being left that have a build up of sludge in the system.

A powerflush will push the installation price up quite abit.

If you aren't renewing the radiators and have no problems with sludge then all you need is:

Sometimes worth adding a cleanser to the system the week before the new boiler is installed, depending on the age and if it hasn't been looked after with inhibitors added etc.

Hot and cold flushes without new boiler connected. To remove any debri's etc from the system.

Then once the work is complete hot and cold flushes to remove flux and copper filings from installation, then inhibitor needs to be added.

The above should all be in as part of the installation cost, ask what products they are using, how many flushes they will carry out etc if they think you're checking and watching what they do, and you have an idea of what should be done they should do the above.

If left to do the installation with no supervision, from experience - 9 out of 10 will not even flush the system once. Meaning all the crap in the old boiler will end up in the new one.

The spirovent will let any air/gases trapped in the system escape, and also traps any dirt particles in the system - it claims to prolong the system life and prevent corrosion, anything that prevents corrosion in a heating system is worth fitting, it'll make sure you get your money worth from the system, it will also prevent the failure of expensive parts in the boiler. The magnaclean traps the dirt particles in filters.

I'm in North East, Newcastle area.

Sounds like the installers you have had have offered sound advice, a powerflush is not normally required.
htg engineer
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Postby cerdyn » Mon May 19, 2008 6:30 pm

[quote="htg engineer"]Are you only changing the boiler or radiators and pipework too ?

A powerflush is only required if you have problems with sludge, radiators not heating, cold spots on radiators etc etc and when an old boiler is removed and radiators and pipework are being left that have a build up of sludge in the system.

A powerflush will push the installation price up quite abit.

If you aren't renewing the radiators and have no problems with sludge then all you need is:

Sometimes worth adding a cleanser to the system the week before the new boiler is installed, depending on the age and if it hasn't been looked after with inhibitors added etc.

Hot and cold flushes without new boiler connected. To remove any debri's etc from the system.

Then once the work is complete hot and cold flushes to remove flux and copper filings from installation, then inhibitor needs to be added.

The above should all be in as part of the installation cost, ask what products they are using, how many flushes they will carry out etc if they think you're checking and watching what they do, and you have an idea of what should be done they should do the above.

If left to do the installation with no supervision, from experience - 9 out of 10 will not even flush the system once. Meaning all the crap in the old boiler will end up in the new one.

The spirovent will let any air/gases trapped in the system escape, and also traps any dirt particles in the system - it claims to prolong the system life and prevent corrosion, anything that prevents corrosion in a heating system is worth fitting, it'll make sure you get your money worth from the system, it will also prevent the failure of expensive parts in the boiler. The magnaclean traps the dirt particles in filters.

I'm in North East, Newcastle area.

Sounds like the installers you have had have offered sound advice, a powerflush is not normally required.[/quote]

Thanks you so much for your advice. shame you're so far away. We think we've got a decent fitter now. One last thing if you don't mind. We have a large 3 bedroom victorian house and want to install a thermostaticly controled shower. The fitter explained that the greenstar 30si 24KW will be suficient but would idealy go for the 30CDi 30KW. However he said that it is possible he would have to enlage the pipe coming from the meter as the current boiler is 24KW. this would mean ripping up flooring so to be safe it would be better to go for the smaller boiler. Does all this make sense and do you feel the smaller boiler will be sufficent for our needs?

Again many thanks for your time - steve
cerdyn
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:07 pm


Postby htg engineer » Wed May 21, 2008 6:38 pm

Can't comment on the gas pipe sizing - as i haven't seen the job, layout of the house distance between boiler and meter, number of fittings, bends, number of appliances and gas rate requirement for each appliance etc etc

All have to be taken into consideration.

If the gas pipe has to be upgraded he wont advise - you either upgrade or he wont be fittin the boiler.

Is it a problem upgrading the gas pipe ?

The 30kw boiler will give a better flow rate for a good shower, if you can afford the upgrade of the gas pipes without too much upset to your house - I would go for the 30kw boiler.

htg
htg engineer
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 5:22 pm


Postby cerdyn » Thu May 22, 2008 2:08 pm

[quote="htg engineer"]Can't comment on the gas pipe sizing - as i haven't seen the job, layout of the house distance between boiler and meter, number of fittings, bends, number of appliances and gas rate requirement for each appliance etc etc

All have to be taken into consideration.

If the gas pipe has to be upgraded he wont advise - you either upgrade or he wont be fittin the boiler.

Is it a problem upgrading the gas pipe ?

The 30kw boiler will give a better flow rate for a good shower, if you can afford the upgrade of the gas pipes without too much upset to your house - I would go for the 30kw boiler.

htg[/quote]

Thanks again. He says he can't tell me in advance of fitting the boiler whether the pipework needs upgrading - is this right? If it is it is a shame as we would like the bigger boiler but we will have to start riping up a solid oak floor which I think isnt really an option. We seem to have a good flow rate with the current shower mixer on the bath taps so I hope the difference will be marginal.

Cheers - steve
cerdyn
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:07 pm


Postby htg engineer » Thu May 22, 2008 3:40 pm

He should be able to tell you whether the current gas pipe is adequate, I don't understand why he can't tell you until the boiler is fitted.

Is it a large house ? long run of pipe between meter and boiler ?
22mm pipe is adequate for most installations, 28mm for long gas runs.

Htg
htg engineer
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 5:22 pm


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