What comes first Flooring or Units!


Postby digwie » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:42 am

Hi,

the new house extension off the kitchen will be used as a utility area and curently has a plain screed floor which I wish to cover with a vinyl floor covering.

My quandery is to install the utility cupboard base units on the screed floor and lay the vinyl floor covering up to them; or to lay the vinyl floor over the whole empty floor and then build the cupboard units ontop of the new floor covering.

Any thoughts???
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Postby Paul-E » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:56 pm

Id lay under units. Trying to get washine machines, fridges, freezers and dishwashers out from under a unit that flooring does not go under is a right pain! If appliances need taking out for service or repair and you forget or are not carefull the feet will catch the edge of the flooring and riiiiiiip. Or if you tile to edge of units, trying to lift appliance over tile whilst pulling on it is also a pain!
I would sit the feet of wash machine etc on those thingys you can buy from diy stores that stops appliance feet damaging flooring. Think they are meant for furniture to stop damaging wooden flooring but work a treat for me when I need to pull out an appliance without risking damage to flooring.

Paul
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Postby rosebery » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:24 pm

Units first, floor afterwards. Standard practice.

Additionally if you ever want to change the floor without changing the units you'll have a problem.

Cheers
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Postby acsimpson » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:11 am

I'm laying laminate in my kitchen and will obviously remove the plinths and lay the floor underneath. I am also fitting new skirting which removed the need for a bead round the edges.

However the kitchen has a u shape of units at one end and an open area with table at the other. This means there are 2 end panels which go from the floor up to the counter. Can someone please advise me if I will need to fit beading along here or if I should remove the panels and trim them to fit. Or is there another way I should do it to get a 1st class finish.
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Postby rosebery » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:42 pm

"I'm laying laminate in my kitchen and will obviously remove the plinths and lay the floor underneath."

Presumably only as far as the feet though.


"I am also fitting new skirting which removed the need for a bead round the edges.

An excellent idea for ANY laminate floor IMHO.


"Can someone please advise me if I will need to fit beading along here or if I should remove the panels and trim them to fit. Or is there another way I should do it to get a 1st class finish."

You could but having gone to the trouble of refixing skirtings above the floor I guess you may be disappointed with the result. You can buy silicone sealant to match your flooring colour which is primarily used for finishing round a hearth where there is no possibility to fit a scotia to cover the expansion gap. I'd give that a try along the bottom edges of your panels to disguise the expansion gap.

Cheers

Cheers
rosebery
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Postby acsimpson » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:21 am

Thanks Roseberry.

"Presumably only as far as the feet though."

Yes, although I may go all the way under the dishwasher to aid any future removal but only if I have enough off-cuts.

"An excellent idea for ANY laminate floor IMHO."

Would you recommend also removing door surrounds and trimming them to size?

"You could but having gone to the trouble of refixing skirtings above the floor I guess you may be disappointed with the result. You can buy silicone sealant to match your flooring colour which is primarily used for finishing round a hearth where there is no possibility to fit a scotia to cover the expansion gap. I'd give that a try along the bottom edges of your panels to disguise the expansion gap. "

I've seen silicon used before and while it never quite matches the colour it can look better than beading. Is the expansion of laminate predictable? If so what size gap should I leave? My other possible option is to trim the end panels but would have to leave a bracket attached to the floor on the hidden side so the floor would only have the width of the panel to expand into. Does this sound feasible?

I hope you don't mind me asking another question about laminate flooring. I am planning to lay Tile-loc (I bought it before reading reviews) Due to the fact it is a floating floor I cant anchor the tile pattern to any set features in the kitchen in the same way as floor tiles. What would be the recommended way to set the tile pattern to get a high class finish?

Thanks again
acsimpson
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Postby rosebery » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:16 pm

"Yes, although I may go all the way under the dishwasher to aid any future removal but only if I have enough off-cuts."

Good plan.

"Would you recommend also removing door surrounds and trimming them to size?"

Do you mean the architrave? If so no. Undercut them with a panel saw laid flat on the floor so that the laminate can slide underneath.


"I've seen silicon used before and while it never quite matches the colour it can look better than beading."

"Is the expansion of laminate predictable? If so what size gap should I leave?"

Some manufactures ask for a bigger gap than others. Rule of thumb is 10mm all round but the smaller the area the less chance of the floor lifting following expansion as the expansion will be smaller than with a large area relatively speaking. In fact I would say that across the planks you can probably get away with 5mm but lengthwise you should stick to 10.


"My other possible option is to trim the end panels but would have to leave a bracket attached to the floor on the hidden side so the floor would only have the width of the panel to expand into. Does this sound feasible?"

It does but I've never tried that myself.


"I hope you don't mind me asking another question about laminate flooring. I am planning to lay Tile-loc (I bought it before reading reviews) Due to the fact it is a floating floor I cant anchor the tile pattern to any set features in the kitchen in the same way as floor tiles. What would be the recommended way to set the tile pattern to get a high class finish?"

Being thick tonight 'cos I really don't understand the question. I'm guessing you'll be trimming at the edges anyhow because the room will not be square. In that respect whats the differece between this and ceramic tiles whhere you lay out the full tiles roughly first to get your starting point then cut the edge tiles accordingly when you meet the edges. Is that what you mean by "anchoring"?

Cheers
rosebery
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Postby acsimpson » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:39 am

"Being thick tonight 'cos I really don't understand the question. I'm guessing you'll be trimming at the edges anyhow because the room will not be square. In that respect whats the differece between this and ceramic tiles whhere you lay out the full tiles roughly first to get your starting point then cut the edge tiles accordingly when you meet the edges. Is that what you mean by "anchoring"?"

You probably didn't understand the question because I'm not quite sure what I'm asking. I guess what I want to know is wether I should lay the boards parallel to one wall or try to centralise the whole floor on the u-plan kitchen as I would if I was laying tiles.

I guess trying to centre the tile pattern on the kitchen would be best. the easiest way to do this would be to start laying boards at the end of the U-shape, but this would mean laying them across the room and parallel with the window which I believe is a bad idea. Otherwise I will need to measure the room carefully to cut the first row of board to be laid to fit the centralised pattern. Do you have any hints for doing this or should I just start with a complete board on the first wall?

Thanks again.
acsimpson
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Postby rosebery » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:28 pm

"You probably didn't understand the question because I'm not quite sure what I'm asking.

Ah!


"I guess what I want to know is wether I should lay the boards parallel to one wall or try to centralise the whole floor on the u-plan kitchen as I would if I was laying tiles."

That would be it.


"I guess trying to centre the tile pattern on the kitchen would be best."

If the boards are like ceramic tiles in appearance I would agree.


"the easiest way to do this would be to start laying boards at the end of the U-shape,"

If thats th centre of the room as you would look for laying ceramics then I would do it that way too.


"but this would mean laying them across the room and parallel with the window"

Does that matter if it loks like tiles?


"which I believe is a bad idea."

It would be if the boards looked like planks of wood. If they look like planks then they should be laid perpendicular to a window not parallel.


"Otherwise I will need to measure the room carefully to cut the first row of board to be laid to fit the centralised pattern. Do you have any hints for doing this or should I just start with a complete board on the first wall?"

I would be to find your centre then lay the boards (overlapping and without locking them together) towards the wall you would normally have started at. Then you know (within a cm or so) where the first full board has to be laid. From there work back towards the centre of the room doing, say, two rows locking the boards as you go and given that the floor is floating when you get there you can adjust slightly if necessary. Work onwards toward the second wall cutting the last board as appropriate. Then go back and do the cut board at the first wall. Am I making sense?

Cheers
rosebery
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Postby acsimpson » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:14 am

Thanks Roseberry that sounds like great advice and I think I now know how I'm going to do lay the stuff on Monday. I'll let you know how it goes next week.

I do have one last question though.

Cutting the bottom of the door architrave should be easy enough using most small hand saws and a pair of gloves to protect my knuckles or a 45 degree hacksaw blade. However would you have a suggested tool which could cut the bottom off a kitchen end panel while it is in situ? If I'm feeling brace I'll try a keyhole blade on my stanley knife but unless I get a better idea I may just revert to your plan to leave a gap and fill with silicone.
acsimpson
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Postby acsimpson » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:12 am

Thanks for all your advice I finished the Kitchen floor of yesterday afternoon and it looks great. The end panels came off easily so they've been trimmed to fit as well.

Now I just need to get the Hallway finished. I thought it was the easy room but it turns out I was wrong.
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Postby rosebery » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:11 am

Sorry acs I missed your last post - guess you must have done it now. I'd suggest a fein multimaster but even with that theres too much chance of damage to the laminate. As you'd really only want to cut back about halfway into the panel (which is only decorative anyway) it would be difficult to do in situ. So to trim the panel it rely need to some off and be laid flat.

Personally I'd not worry about the exapnsion gap too much at these panels because you'll have enough gap in opposite directions to absorb any expansion. Cut the laminate fairly tight ( say no more than 5 mm to the panel) and silicone it would b my advice.

Cheers
rosebery
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