DIY Doctor

about informing the Building control.

Postby bartkusal » Tue May 11, 2010 3:33 pm

Hi to everyone, I am a bit confused ,can anyone clearly tell me please what is the story with building control. As i red here on the forums that you dont need a sparky to do the notifiable job, if you informed the building control and paid the fees, so I thought it is their job to check it and isue some kind of the certificate aftewards if all okay. so the question: why do they asking for comliance certificate for the particular job, my sister had done in her house...:?: :?: :?: thanks a lot to everyone considering to ansver me :D
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Simply Build It

Postby sparx » Tue May 11, 2010 6:01 pm

Hi Bartkusel,

It seems not all LABC's are working to same standard.

You are correct in that if fee paid first they will send someone to inspect installation for compliance with building regs at first fix (wiring)
and 2nd fix (when fittings connected).

However these are only related to physical runs of cables ie no notched joists etc. plus placement of fittings and vent fans etc.

They do not have to do any electrical tests nor issue electrical installation certs.

What they issue is a building regs compliance cert.

If that's all they issue then it seems unreasonable to ask you for any electrical certs. also if they do it is supposed to be paid for by LABC out of the fee!

have you read PART P on their web site free down load ?

Section 1.24/25/26 page 11 states the above! point it out to them..

regards Sparx
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Postby bartkusal » Wed May 12, 2010 2:50 pm

thanks a lot for your replay much apriciated...
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Postby ericmark » Wed May 12, 2010 6:15 pm

In the approved document it states “1.23 c. Where installers are not qualified to complete BS7671 completion certificates” and goes on to say “1.26” “Building control bodies will carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at the householders' expense.
It also on next page states “1.27 A building control body will not issue a BS 7671 installation certificate”
However the LABC should not allow anyone who is not qualified to complete a BS7671 certificate to do electrical work. If one looks at qualifications required you sign to say:-
I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to .............(date) except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows.

Very simply if you have not got reasonable skill then you should not be doing the job. And the LABC has to do the inspection if you don't have skill, not if you don't have meters required, so it becomes a very hard thing to argue that you have the skill to do work but not to test, as if lacking skill to test you can't do the work!
Also in 1.24 where it states “the building control body must be notified before the work starts.” That means, it seems, you must tell them you want them to inspect and test before the work starts.
1.10 states '“Qualified” in this context means having the appropriate qualifications' well two jags may have understood that but not sure anyone else does. It is a little like those signs “Authorised personnel only” authorised to do what! I am authorised to drive a car so that means I am authorised? And sorry to say the whole of the language used is so open to interpretation as to be useless.
One must also remember BS7671 is not the only regulation that can be used. A German could have a house wired to German regulations and the LABC would still have to issue a completion certificate, even though the sockets don't comply with BS7671. In fact only the LABC could issue a completion certificate as Electricians who are members of the scheme's must comply with BS7671 under their agreement with scheme providers.
You must remember Electricians don't have a problem we can issue the installation certificate and the LABC gets money for nothing as there is no reduction in fees when electricians do the work, to a DIY guy, it's all or nothing, either we become members of scheme or we pay full amount. Some LABC do give discount but they are not suppose to. In Wales we all pay £100 plus vat for work up to £2000 worth.
So how to get around the problem? I would suggest you fill in the installation certificate, and where you can't fill it in, leave blank. Make sure you use the three signature version and leave the “For Inspecting & Testing” blank. (Forms free download IET web site)
Builders and Electricians also have problems with the LABC, as where they have been informed for example an extension is to be built, either the LABC, or an Electrician who is a scheme member may be doing Part P paperwork. Since the LABC is being paid anyway, there is no real need for the electrician to be a member of the scheme, in fact many consider it to be a waist of money. However the person who informs the LABC must tell the LABC they will be doing the electrical work as well, before the job starts.
Personally I blame the LABC it is so easy to produce a form with tick boxes, as to what is to be covered by them, and where they have not got a firm commitment as to what is their job, and what is someone else's job, then they only have them selves to blame.
Being fair to my own LABC, before I started the work they told me they could only authorise it if I could provide them with installation certificates, as they did not have anyone able to do tests within LABC. He made it very clear he does not have to grant permission, and if he feels I don't have the skills they can refuse. He also said I would need to wait until he gave go ahead. As which I replied no I didn't, it came under emergency work, so post notifying was permitted. At this he demanded proof I could do the work. On being told my son had C&G 2391 he did not seem impressed, and was still considering the reply. However when I told him I had degree in Electrical and Electronic engineering he backed down and let us continue. Daft bit was C&G 2391 was far more relevant however we did not bother to enlighten him. I also had C&G 2391 so did not matter.
Good news though since for my disabled mother he decided to wave charges so seems LABC does have a heart and also some common sense.
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