i have had an extension completed but the council building control need a certificate from the electrician who will not produce as he hasnt been paid by the builder. i have been told that the council can do this or should i just get another electrician to check and certify many thanks
The electrician MUST give a certificate for the work done, and register the work with the local authority, this is law.
No electrician can certify work done by another, nor will the local authority.
You need to get the electricians name or company name and which 'part p' scheme he is in, ie niceic/napit/elecsa/bsi.
contact them and complain, they can put pressure on any member.
See also 'competant persons scheme' on web for details of scheme providers
There are two different certificates. The Installation Certificate is not a legal document but would normally be supplied by any electrician doing electrical work unless a very simple job then the Minor Works Certificate will be issued instead.
As to forcing an electrician to issue one this would be hard to do as legally don't think he has to. However where one has not been issued many authorities will accept an Inspection Report instead.
The Completion Certificate is not strictly issued by the electrician but is issued either by his scheme operator or by the Local Authority Building control. These are legal documents. If the electrician is a member of a scheme he as Sparx says has no option but to issue one. However if he is using the LABC and they have to inspect the work then things get a little fussy.
You as the owner where the LABC are doing the inspection are responsible for supplying them with the Installation Certificate which in turn you will get from the electrician. Often the electrician will do the informing of LABC for you or where working for a builder he will often do the informing for you. But it is your responsibility not theirs.
I had a situation where the builder ran off not completing the work and we had to take over the work. Since it was being done for a disabled person there was no LABC charges but first hurdle was they wanted us to wait for permission before continuing the work. It was pointed out this was emergency work and he did then allow us to start. Some electrical work had already been done and some still needed doing and once completed I carefully filled in the three signature Installation Certificate carefully noting what I had done and what the other guy had done.
This was accepted by the LABC and a Completion certificate was issued. Also it seems the LABC chased the builder and a couple of months latter he was no longer trading.
I will set to watch for replies. As electricians we likely have less to do with this than Joe public. Although the scheme provider may check our work it is rare for the LABC to inspect and the LABC does not have to follow the requirements of BS7671:2008 they only have to ensure it is safe. So if for example you were German and wanted a house wired to German standards the LABC could pass it but as electricians working under the BS7671:2008 we would not be permitted by our scheme providers to wire a house in that manor.
Mainly as German plugs are reversible so not permitted under our regulations. The only place that reversible plugs are permitted is where an isolation transformer is used like in a shaver socket.
I would not expect the installation to pass without some comments as if I was asked to test an installation I would look for anything not quite right. However so long as no code 1 items then even if not A1 likely the LABC will still issue a completion certificate.
Code 1 Dangerous recommend switch off.
Code 2 Needs correcting but it could be very minor for example a clip in blank where the MCB's go in a consumer unit could fail as it should be a type requiring a tool to remove it.
Code 3 Means not tested for example the size of the main incoming fuse as sealed.
Code 4 Complies with previous edition of BS7671 for example no RCD on bathroom lights.
It really annoys me when some one tests and enters codes without saying why as it could be serious and something I had not seen or something rather silly like clip in blanks. So where he does find anything wrong do get him to explain what is wrong.
ericmark - just to clarify are you saying that if i so desired i could have my house rewired as per german.any other regs and it would be a legal installation provided that LABC considered it safe and signed it off?
and what if german sparks carried out the work, would their respective scheme providers be prepared to sign it off?
and if i had all the necessary documentation would my insurance company accept this in the event of an electrical fire?
The only real difference between German and British system is their plugs the CEE 7/17 and CEE 7/4 (German "Schuko" 16 A/250 V grounded) are both reversible with the exception of the bathroom isolation transformer and our regulations state:- 553.1.2 Except for SELV or a special circuit from Regulation 553.1.5, every plug and socket-outlet shall be of the non-reversible type. with provision for the connection of a protective conductor.
So the German system does not comply with British regulations but the BS7671:2008 is not law only Part P is law and Part P says BS7671 or other similar regulation so it would be permitted under Part P.
However the scheme operators all insist that there members follow BS7671:2008 so no British electrician can sign off the work. Neither can any German electrician as they are not members of our schemes. So it would have to be done through the LABC the work notified first and then they would have to check it all. If the German system required something ours did not then that would have to be included. However since 2008 we have followed the rest of Europe in fitting RCD's to nearly all circuits so the only difference I have noted is the use of double pole MCB's which I suppose are required if one can swap line and neutral.
I don't know what earthing arrangements are used in Germany may be TN-C-S is not permitted and this is where it would become a problem in that we don't know there regulations.
But the whole point was that when it is inspected by the local authority the rules are not the same as when installed by a scheme registered electrician and if I was employed by the local authority to inspect an insulation I would have to quote with each non compliance which regulation it did not comply with and it would be up to the LABC inspector if he considered the items raised were of a nature which would require correction or if a completion certificate could be issued. I as the electrician only submit the report it is the LABC inspector who based on that report issues the completion certificate.
As to insurance it is rare for them to ask to see any paperwork as to work done and in a fire likely it would be destroyed anyway so the paperwork they would look at would be that held by the LABC. Reversing the line and neutral is not a fire risk it is more to do with getting a shock. So in the case of a fire can't see how if wired to German standard it would have any bearing on the risk. But you would still need to declare to the insurance company that it was wired to German standard.
However socket protectors are in this country not required to protect children from sticking things in the sockets. In fact those sold make it more not less likely that a child could get a shock and don't comply with any British regulations and any one using them would leave themselves open to prosecution should a child be injured as they don't have a British Standard and would be seen as a device to disable the built in safety features. However in Germany likely the reverse would be the case so I would not want to wire any house to German standards and if I did all sockets would need protectors fitting.
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