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HELP Info' Please - Ref; Change Shower Pump To Feel Improved Pressure > TBC?

Postby DC4_DIY » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:51 pm

Hi,

I believe that some time ago I may have replaced the Shower Pump that stopped working after approximately 3 to 5 years or more with the wrong Shower Head Pump type.

The Shower is Gravity Fed from the Cold Water Tank in the Loft above the Bathroom where the Hot Water Tank is within the Airing Cupboard next to the Bath.

When reviewing the Bristan [Varispeed Water Pump 50] Installation Instructions I assumed that this Pump would work ok because the shower head was more than 230mm below the bottom of the Cold Feed Tank as stated within the Instructions.

I believe that I am correct to assume that the pump we currently have is a Positive Head type.

This being due to the fact that the Installations Instruction and User Guide has a Negative Head Option Kit, that was not included with the pump, and the method shown of how the Negative Head Kit is installed with a Pull Cord Switch.

> With this being said is there any way of knowing from just looking at and running a shower pump if it is a Positive or Negative head shower pump?

Unfortunately our TRITON, Capella, Thermostatic Mixer Shower has a very poor pressure that will only start with both the Hot and Cold when the Shower Head is at waist height.

If I were to change the current Bristan Shower Pump to a known Negative Head Shower Pump will my Wife and I get and feel a shower with a notably higher improved pressure from the Gravity Fed Cold and Hot Water Tank the Shower Pump sits next to on the floor within the Airing Cupboard?

The poor pressure may also be down to the cost of the Pump when I bought it?
It may have been in a Sale or I just thought it was good value for money...
Unfortunately this Shower has never had the pressure expected in comparison to Hotels for example:-(

Moving forward from what I have read if I were to change the Shower Pump I think that I would invest in a Centrifugal Negative Head Shower Pump.
> Centrifugal - Better Quality than a Regenerative Pump and Quieter.
> Negative - Assumed to be for improved pressure.
> The Shower Head is within 600mm from the bottom of the Cold Water Tank above.

Please do not hesitate to ask any questions for clarification on anything mentioned or not mentioned.

Thank you in advance, I will look forward to your feedback.

I trust that you will continue to be safe and well during this current global Coronavirus uncertainty.

A video clip of the Shower Flow with and without the Mixer can be sent for review upon request.

Thanks,

DC4 DIY
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Postby stoneyboy » Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:57 pm

Hi dc4_diy
Presumably you have the pump speed control adjusted to it highest setting. If yes then replace the pump with one that gives nearer 3 bar pressure, positive head will be fine for your installation.
Regards S
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Postby DC4_DIY » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:32 pm

Stoneyboy,

Thank you for your feedback and apologies for the delay with my reply.

I believe that the pump speed has been set to the maximum it can be.

Pre-Covid: My Wife and I had Two Plumbers around to review what we have and give us a quote.
This was to either improve the pressure of what we have or replace the gravity fed mixer shower with an electric shower.

Plumber 1: Took a look and said that he would be able to improve the pressure with the existing mixer shower.
From what was said and what I seen him looking at and do, I assume that he was going to replace the existing shower pump and refasten the hot and cold water going through the wall to the mixer tap.
He also adjusted the variable speed dial on the pump during his visit.
I therefore assume that the pump speed has been set to the maximum it can be.
Due to the first lockdown we have never been contact again.

Plumber 2: He said that we could get almost any electric shower and he would install it for a fixed price.
But we would need to get an electrician to do the electrical part of the electric shower installation and purchase the electric shower, ideally letting him know which one before we purchased it.

As with Plumber 1; Due to the first lockdown we have never been contact again.

OMG: From April 2015, I have a 16 Second MP4 video clip of both the hot and cold water feed's to the mixer tap that I can send by email upon request.

My preference is for the mixer shower to give us the ideal result of having 'Power Shower' pressure that we need to turn down and not keep hoping the shower pump won't cut out whilst having our shower.

But if we need to go electric, to get this we need to go electric...

Thank you in advance for any further feedback.

Kind Regards,

Daniel
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Postby stoneyboy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:54 pm

Hi dc4_diy
Your post contains conflicting information.
Your shower is either gravity fed or fed by an electric pump.
You mention a mixer tap - how is this related to your problems and the shower?
You refer to turning down the shower pump but this is done using the shower valve control.
Finally you refer to going electric but your pump is already electric.
I am confused.
Regards S
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Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 4950
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:44 pm


Postby DC4_DIY » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:02 pm

Stoney Boy,

Apologies for the delay with my reply to clarify your confusion.

The Electric Pump is Gravity Fed from the Cold Tank within the Loft above it.

The same Cold Tank within the Loft feeds the Hot Water Cylinder.

All of the Hot Water Taps and the Pump are fed from the Hot Water Tank outlet pipe.

The Shower Mixer Tap is fed from the Hot and Cold output of the Electric Shower Pump.

On the top of the Bristan [Varispeed Water Pump 50] Shower Pump has Boost Control disk on the top that I believe to be in the best position for the Shower Pump to work.

Has this clarified your confusion?

I trust that you will continue to be safe and well during this Coronavirus pandemic.

Kind Regards,

Daniel
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Postby stoneyboy » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:39 pm

Hi dc4-diy
Thank you for your answers. If the pump is turned up to maximum speed and its filters are clear you will need to fit a pump with a higher output pressure - 3 bar.
Regards S
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Posts: 4950
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Postby DC4_DIY » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:36 pm

Stoney Boy,

Thank you for your quick feedback.

When searching on Google for water pressure of the Bristan - Varispeed Water Pump 50, I believe that I have found it to be only 1.5 Bar.
I can 100% confirm that it is not written within the instructions and user manual.
And I do not recall seeing a Bar Rating on the side of the Pump to know for sure.
As mentioned within a previous reply I do have a 16 Second MP4 video of the Pump output without the Shower Mixer Tap.

If the Output Bar is a Maximum of 1.5 I know that it is not set at the maximum boost.

Would I be correct to assume that the Pump is not currently working at its maximum Bar pressure and this will be because of the Gravity Flows feeding the Pump may not be able to keep up with the Pump?

Does this assumption make sense to you?

If this assumption is correct is a 3.0 Bar Shower Pump likely to work?

A temporary improvement may be to turn the Boost Dial of the Shower Pump to its maximum?

Moving forward with a new 3.0 Bar Shower Pump is there any Shower Pump that you would recommend?

Another assumption for this is for it to be a Universal Shower Pump that can work with a Positive or Negative Head.

I will again look forward to your feedback and recommendations on this.

PS: I have submitted a new DIY Doctor Post asking about stopping the Black Bits coming from the Hot Tap of the Bath.

Kind Regards,

Daniel > DC4_DIY
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Postby stoneyboy » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:25 pm

Hi dc4_diy
Turn the pump to maximum, if the shower is not continuous ie it splutters, then it may be that the supply pipe cannot keep up but it could also be that the filters are blocked.
Fitting a 3 bar pump will not solve the problem with the supply pipe. The is little point in going for a negative head pump.
If you have a large rainforest shower head your system may not be able to supply enough water, if this is the case try a smaller shower head.
Regards S
stoneyboy
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 4950
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:44 pm


Postby DC4_DIY » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:31 pm

Hello Stoney Boy and All,

I trust that you had a great Christmas 2020, despite the Coronavirus restrictions.

Moving Forward; I may have been fortunate enough to have resolved to plumbing issues at once.

Both the Bath Tap and Hot Shower Pump feeds share the Hot Water Cylinder outlet pipe.

A few months ago we had our loft insulated with spray foam insulation.
With the assumption that the open top Cold Water Header Tank was covered to stop any debris falling in to it.

After removing the flexible hose to the Bath Hot Water Tap and finding no debris or corrosion, by pulling a ‘J Cloth’ through it, I choose to check the Hot Water feed to the Shower Pump.

Fortunately for me and the Kitchen Ceiling below, I did have a towel to catch the water within the pipe and the Black Bits Debris.

It is assumed that the Black Bits Debris were from the Cold Header Tank via the Hot Water Cylinder.

Following this I removed all of the pipes from the Shower Pump, to find that there was some Debris within the Hot Water Feed Filter.

After cleaning the filter and re-connection of the Hot Water Pipes for the Bath and Shower Pump, there were no more Black Bits coming in to the Hot Tap in to the Bath.

And with about a 90 Degree Turn of the Shower Pump Boost Dial the Shower Pressure has been increased enough to know that you are having a shower…
(For Details Please See Other Thread;

Please be Safe and Well during this Coronavirus Pandemic uncertainty.

Thank You in advance for your feedback.

Kind Regards,

Daniel > DC4_DIY
DC4_DIY
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Progress to next rank:
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Postby DC4_DIY » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:36 pm

DC4_DIY wrote:Hello Stoney Boy and All,

I trust that you had a great Christmas 2020, despite the Coronavirus restrictions.

Moving Forward; I may have been fortunate enough to have resolved to plumbing issues at once.

Both the Bath Tap and Hot Shower Pump feeds share the Hot Water Cylinder outlet pipe.

A few months ago we had our loft insulated with spray foam insulation.
With the assumption that the open top Cold Water Header Tank was covered to stop any debris falling in to it.

After removing the flexible hose to the Bath Hot Water Tap and finding no debris or corrosion, by pulling a ‘J Cloth’ through it, I choose to check the Hot Water feed to the Shower Pump.

Fortunately for me and the Kitchen Ceiling below, I did have a towel to catch the water within the pipe and the Black Bits Debris.

It is assumed that the Black Bits Debris were from the Cold Header Tank via the Hot Water Cylinder.

Following this I removed all of the pipes from the Shower Pump, to find that there was some Debris within the Hot Water Feed Filter.

After cleaning the filter and re-connection of the Hot Water Pipes for the Bath and Shower Pump, there were no more Black Bits coming in to the Hot Tap in to the Bath.

And with about a 90 Degree Turn of the Shower Pump Boost Dial the Shower Pressure has been increased enough to know that you are having a shower…
(For Details Please See Other Thread;

Please be Safe and Well during this Coronavirus Pandemic uncertainty.

Thank You in advance for your feedback.

Kind Regards,

Daniel > DC4_DIY
DC4_DIY wrote:Hello Stoney Boy and All,

I trust that you had a great Christmas 2020, despite the Coronavirus restrictions.

Moving Forward; I may have been fortunate enough to have resolved to plumbing issues at once.

Both the Bath Tap and Hot Shower Pump feeds share the Hot Water Cylinder outlet pipe.

A few months ago we had our loft insulated with spray foam insulation.
With the assumption that the open top Cold Water Header Tank was covered to stop any debris falling in to it.

After removing the flexible hose to the Bath Hot Water Tap and finding no debris or corrosion, by pulling a ‘J Cloth’ through it, I choose to check the Hot Water feed to the Shower Pump.

Fortunately for me and the Kitchen Ceiling below, I did have a towel to catch the water within the pipe and the Black Bits Debris.

It is assumed that the Black Bits Debris were from the Cold Header Tank via the Hot Water Cylinder.

Following this I removed all of the pipes from the Shower Pump, to find that there was some Debris within the Hot Water Feed Filter.

After cleaning the filter and re-connection of the Hot Water Pipes for the Bath and Shower Pump, there were no more Black Bits coming in to the Hot Tap in to the Bath.

And with about a 90 Degree Turn of the Shower Pump Boost Dial the Shower Pressure has been increased enough to know that you are having a shower…
(For Details Please See Other Thread; How To Stop Hot Water Tap Black Bits Debris?).

Please be Safe and Well during this Coronavirus Pandemic uncertainty.

Thank You in advance for your feedback.

Kind Regards,

Daniel > DC4_DIY
DC4_DIY
Rank: Apprentice
Progress to next rank:
26.3%
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:20 pm



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