Moving Consumer Unit


Postby mraich » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:31 pm

We are required to have a new 10-way split load RCD consumer unit installed to replace the existing consumer unit. The existing consumer unit is located in a kitchen base unit. We would like to have the new one moved up to the wall unit directly above the base unit. Does anyone know what a fair price would be to have this done?
Thanks.
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Postby kbrownie » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:39 pm

mraich,
you'll need your local supply authority to move the board and an electrician to disconnect and reconnect it.
Last time I had a board moved be a supply authority
it cost me about £400 that was about 5 years ago, your electrician will charge you for dis/reconnection of board and inspection and testing certificates as the circuits will be in most cases altered. Cost will depend which part of counrty you live in and amount of work.
Regards
KB
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Postby ericmark » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:17 pm

With the introduction of the 17th Edition or BS 7671:2008 prices for materials have gone up and what is required depends on many factors materials alone could vary from £100 to £500 depending on make and system adopted. One of the big problems when changing consumer units is it can highlight other problems so if lucky an electrician may complete the job in half a day but also he could spend two days fault finding. Each electrician will be likely to include different things in his quote it is not unheard of for fault finding to be on day rate. My parents were quoted £150 and he fitted it with promise to return to complete as he said the RCD was faulty and he needed to return it to wholesale outlet and was never seen again. So someone you can trust is more important than price.
What I would say is consider what you what as far as RCD's go. Cheap option may be to fit just two but having kitchen on it's own RCBO (Thats as RCD and MCB combined) would reduce likely hood of losing freezer. All items leak some power to earth so the more earth leakage trips you have the less likely any one is to trip. The make of consumer unit will also make a big difference to price with RCBO's costing between £12.5 and £32 and I am not sure if I would want to skimp on safety.
So I would say kbrownie's £500 is rather on the low side. Until the 1st July you can work to 16th Edition but since most the money is spent on labour I would consider this as a bad move.
Eric
ericmark

Postby mraich » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:27 pm

[quote="kbrownie"]mraich,
you'll need your local supply authority to move the board and an electrician to disconnect and reconnect it.
Last time I had a board moved be a supply authority
it cost me about £400 that was about 5 years ago, your electrician will charge you for dis/reconnection of board and inspection and testing certificates as the circuits will be in most cases altered. Cost will depend which part of counrty you live in and amount of work.
Regards
KB[/quote] Many thanks kbrownie for your input. Not sure I understand the requirement for the local authority involvement if I am having a qualified electrician doing the work.
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Postby mraich » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:43 pm

[quote="ericmark"]With the introduction of the 17th Edition or BS 7671:2008 prices for materials have gone up and what is required depends on many factors materials alone could vary from £100 to £500 depending on make and system adopted. One of the big problems when changing consumer units is it can highlight other problems so if lucky an electrician may complete the job in half a day but also he could spend two days fault finding. Each electrician will be likely to include different things in his quote it is not unheard of for fault finding to be on day rate. My parents were quoted £150 and he fitted it with promise to return to complete as he said the RCD was faulty and he needed to return it to wholesale outlet and was never seen again. So someone you can trust is more important than price.
What I would say is consider what you what as far as RCD's go. Cheap option may be to fit just two but having kitchen on it's own RCBO (Thats as RCD and MCB combined) would reduce likely hood of losing freezer. All items leak some power to earth so the more earth leakage trips you have the less likely any one is to trip. The make of consumer unit will also make a big difference to price with RCBO's costing between £12.5 and £32 and I am not sure if I would want to skimp on safety.
So I would say kbrownie's £500 is rather on the low side. Until the 1st July you can work to 16th Edition but since most the money is spent on labour I would consider this as a bad move.
Eric[/quote] Thank you Ericmark for your guidance. I read many of your responses to other questions and it is obvious you are an expert in your field and your opinion is highly regarded. My intent is not to skimp on safety - just do not like to get ripped off. The one quote I have had so far (for a 10-way split load RCD consumer unit) is in excess of £500.00 so I assume now that that is reasonable. The consumer unit itself costs about £60-75 so the rest must be labour. And yes, I do want to comply with the 17th edition of part P. As you say, no point in going for anything less than the up-to-date version. If a qualified electrician is completing the work do I still have to notify my local authority separately - as kbrownie has suggested? By the way, what happens to the 'old' consumer units that are being replaced?
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Postby ericmark » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:13 pm

£60 to £75 seems a little low as retail value of a duel RCD populated unit do make sure it is duel RCD. If the electrician is registered under Part P you do not need to inform the LABC but not all qualified electricians are registered so check with him first. The old consumer unit normally gets binned sometime people use them in garages etc. But box is cheap its the RCBO's and RCD's that are expensive.
All best Eric
ericmark

Postby mraich » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:58 pm

[quote="ericmark"]£60 to £75 seems a little low as retail value of a duel RCD populated unit do make sure it is duel RCD. If the electrician is registered under Part P you do not need to inform the LABC but not all qualified electricians are registered so check with him first. The old consumer unit normally gets binned sometime people use them in garages etc. But box is cheap its the RCBO's and RCD's that are expensive.
All best Eric[/quote] Thanks again Eric. Just read your response to Beamer and I can tell you eased the burden on yet another writer. With regard to my own Consumer Unit I just read a PDF document on the 17th edition. Puzzled. It says you cannot have the new Consumer Unit higher than 1200mm above the floor. I was hoping to put mine in a wall cabinet, which is higher up than that. The article also referred to 'The Smoke Alarm' and the RCD unit. The only smoke alarm I've ever had is a battery operated one. Also wondering whether I should go for a 12 way dual split load consumer unit instaed of the 10 way split load one suggested by the electrician. Just saw one (12 way) on the net (Contactor) - £54 supplied wit a 100A main switch + 2 x 80Amp RCDs. MCBs and RCBOs would be additional at £3 and £23.75 respectively. Also, did I understand you to say to Beamer that their electrician did not have to comply with the 17th edition since he installed it before 1 July 2008?
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Postby ericmark » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:01 am

As to 10 or 12 way it would depend what you intend to put in it. I have seen the door bell transformer being put directly in the consumer unit. The distance above floor is Part M not 17th Edition and reading it again it does not seem to cover consumer units as such. The 17th Edition allows sockets for connecting caravans to be 0.5 to 1.5 meters more if flooding is likely which makes sense to mount high if you don’t want children to play with them. But of course it needs to be in a position it can be worked on. As to smoke alarm all new houses are required to have mains powered although battery backed smoke alarms and to supply these from a supply which could be tripped out due to a faulty appliance being plugged in is not allowed. And anything planned before 1st July does not have to be to 17th Edition even if completed after that date but I think you would be silly not to comply with 17th Edition.
At the moment working out exactly what is required for 17th Edition is not easy. The main thing is now it has been made plain that division of supply into circuits to avoid hazards and minimize inconvenience in the event of a fault includes the RCD. And if for example a circuit was to supply an item likely to have high earth leakage such as a cooker with mineral insulated rings then it should be on its own RCBO but if it were to have a ceramic hob these don’t suffer in the same way from hydroscopic problems so it could be combined with other circuits. But when the house is being built the type of cooker being fitted could be unknown so no one is sure what will become the norm. We have seen the same problems with this carbon foot print rating where they take into account the rating of stand alone fridge and freezers which are not being sold with the house. I got my copy of the 17th Edition in February and I am still finding bits I had not noticed and am still revising what is allowed. There are some mistakes for example no allowance was make for the use of SELV cables in a house and to follow the regulations to the letter all telephone, networking, Door bell cables and the like would need to be on the surface as they don’t use an earth system so neither an RCD or a cable surrounded with a earthed sheaf will work. This is an oversight and I am sure it will be corrected soon but it means until the update is published no one is quite sure what other changes may also be included in the first revision so we must use some common sense rather than blindly following the regulations to the letter.
Yours Eric
ericmark

Postby mraich » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:40 pm

[quote="ericmark"]As to 10 or 12 way it would depend what you intend to put in it. I have seen the door bell transformer being put directly in the consumer unit. The distance above floor is Part M not 17th Edition and reading it again it does not seem to cover consumer units as such. The 17th Edition allows sockets for connecting caravans to be 0.5 to 1.5 meters more if flooding is likely which makes sense to mount high if you don’t want children to play with them. But of course it needs to be in a position it can be worked on. As to smoke alarm all new houses are required to have mains powered although battery backed smoke alarms and to supply these from a supply which could be tripped out due to a faulty appliance being plugged in is not allowed. And anything planned before 1st July does not have to be to 17th Edition even if completed after that date but I think you would be silly not to comply with 17th Edition.
At the moment working out exactly what is required for 17th Edition is not easy. The main thing is now it has been made plain that division of supply into circuits to avoid hazards and minimize inconvenience in the event of a fault includes the RCD. And if for example a circuit was to supply an item likely to have high earth leakage such as a cooker with mineral insulated rings then it should be on its own RCBO but if it were to have a ceramic hob these don’t suffer in the same way from hydroscopic problems so it could be combined with other circuits. But when the house is being built the type of cooker being fitted could be unknown so no one is sure what will become the norm. We have seen the same problems with this carbon foot print rating where they take into account the rating of stand alone fridge and freezers which are not being sold with the house. I got my copy of the 17th Edition in February and I am still finding bits I had not noticed and am still revising what is allowed. There are some mistakes for example no allowance was make for the use of SELV cables in a house and to follow the regulations to the letter all telephone, networking, Door bell cables and the like would need to be on the surface as they don’t use an earth system so neither an RCD or a cable surrounded with a earthed sheaf will work. This is an oversight and I am sure it will be corrected soon but it means until the update is published no one is quite sure what other changes may also be included in the first revision so we must use some common sense rather than blindly following the regulations to the letter.
Yours Eric[/quote] Once again, Eric, my thanks. You're a star. Also your response to my question on underfloor heating. I may impose upon you again when I come up with more 17th edition questions. As the old saying goes - if you want something done, ask a busy person. You're that busy person.
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Postby kbrownie » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:41 pm

mraich,
sorry for being late back and it seems this thread has run it's course and you have been given excellent advice as always by ericmark.
Just to clarify the last time I was involved in a cu being moved, the supply authority had to move the meter and intake cut out as it belongs to them, like I said this was about 5 years ago, i'm guessing things may have changed.
Good Luck with this project
KB
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