noisy and inefficient wash down WC in 2 year old new build property


Postby Nearlyman » Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:51 pm

Some years ago I bought my present house as a new build - "all mod cons included" i.e. a fully fitted kitchen with appliances, as part of the developer's sales pitch. The 3/4 bed det. house enjoys the benefit of three {wash-down] WC's: one each for the en-suite, the family bathroom and the hall cloakroom. A step up for us as we managed in a chalet bungalow for eight years with just one loo, in the only bathroom, for all seven of us!
This new property has had a number of "issues" which were, to a greater or lesser extent - during the permitted 'snagging' period of 2 years, dealt with, usually quite promptly, by the builders; a.k.a. Developers.
The cloaks' WC, however, has never been "right" from day one, in spite of the plumber (and his mate), on contract to the builders, returning, at least half a dozen times, attempting to "fix" it.
They did eventually "solve" the problem, i.e. the flush did not work with a single cranking every time and mostly required to be cranked vigorously a number of times to get it to work at all.
However, being of an inquisitive disposition, I was moved to look more closely at what they had done and how they had "managed", after so many visits, to cure the fault. I discovered immediately that they had concocted their own design of linkage with non-standard bits and pieces - like something from a deranged Meccano set (point 1) and, instead of the quick change siphon, originally fitted, they had replaced the siphon with an earlier type 'cannibalized' (by their own admission) - of defeat? - from another unit. (point 2). Furthermore, this was the fourth siphon they had fitted: the three prior to this being the quick change version I mentioned above (point 3).
By this time I realised I was not going to get a better job done so I resigned myself to having to do the job myself. This necessitated having to remove the entire cistern from the bowl in order to detach the siphon; a job now largely eliminated by later designs of siphon.
I replaced the siphon with a Dudley Turbo SSR and also replaced the inlet valve - whilst I was at it - to a silent, turbo type: the one with the tiny float.
All well and good I thought. But no. Whilst the loo flushes almost without fail with just one crank of the lever and the wash down full and strong, the noise as it washes down is much greater than the two other identical units in bathroom and en-suite. It also nearly always requires two flushes to clear the bowl properly.
So, what could be wrong? One thing I can advise is that the sewer outlet pipe, which goes straight into the floor is offset, i.e. is not directly behind the [P trap] spigot on the bowl. This has necessitated the use of a flexible connection from this spigot to the sewer pipe which sits, virtually flush, in the floor. Could this 'arrangement' be the cause of the noisy flushing and the need to flush - most times - more than once?
If so, I can't see there being much I can do about it - short of digging up the floor and re-aligning the sewer pipe....or is there another way?
Nearlyman
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Postby lets have a look » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:53 am

If there is going to be a problem wc as you have it's going to be in a cloakroom,I know the frustration the plumbers were feeling,downstairs wc's don't empty as good as a upstairs one as more force/suction is created by the drop.
Manufacturers of wc have a simple test,they put 6 I think ping pong balls in the bowl and when flushed if there are 2 or 3 balls left they consider that to be functioning properly without the outlet being connected.

What would I check or alter if I was there as a plumber,obviously the syphon,is it giving the maximum flush,a dudley can be altered to give a full flush or a water saving flush.
Then I would test it by having 4 buckets full of water and pour down in quick succession into the pan.
Then the flexi soil connector,is it kinked ?, if so changing it for a flexi with a right hand bend on the connection to the pan ,
while I had the flexi out I would check for a blockage,also is it sucking enough air to allow a flush,unlikely but a possibility,do you have a vent coming through the roof ?
I would hope by now to have cured it.
Syphon outlets come in two sizes,40 mm and 50mm ? I think,but that depends on the outlet hole in the cistern,costly to change the cistern though.
lets have a look
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Postby Nearlyman » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:41 pm

A very interesting and well considered reply - thank you for that.
No vent from roof and flexy is not kinked, but will look more deeply into blockage possibility and the soil pipe dimension. With any luck problem will get solved....... one way or another. May even end up installing a whole new lavatory suite; just to make absolutely sure!
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Postby lets have a look » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:00 am

thanks for the comments,the reason I mentioned the soil coming through the roof is because if it doesn't you will have an air admittance valve on the soil in the attic which might be faulty enough to prevent the downstairs wc flushing away,but then I would maybe expect the upstairs drainage to have a problem, if you're lucky the AAV is pushfit and you could take it out to experiment
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