Plumbing Notifications


Postby bazza1 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:52 pm

Do all plumbing installations need to be notified to the local building control?
I realise that gas boiler installations require notifying, but these can be done via a competent person scheme, is it the same for new plumbing installations?

Bazza
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Postby bobplum » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:08 pm

hi
i do find this a slightly confusing area
i live near ellesmereport,cheshire and i have contacted the building control dept and asked this type of question,firstly they didnt know what i was talking about,secondly werent realy intrested,not enough officers to enforce.
the competent persons scheme for plumbing is as far as i am aware only voluntary
i can honestly say i dont know off one person who (plumbers,bathroom installers etc) who as joined the scheme
if i install any bathrooms or new piping i issue a certificate under the w.r.a.s (water regs)
im working for a national company now so the rules may have changed would love to hear everyones view on this
bob
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Postby bazza1 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:46 pm

Thanks for the reply bob,
I work for for a national kitchen company as an office based gas assessor, so i understand about gas regs and notifications. One of our sister companies is a bathroom installation company, and i have been given the task of making sure that they comply with the building regs. But very similiar to your experiences with local buiding control, nobody seems to know exactly what anybody should be doing! The answer i keep getting is you should be notifying plumbing work but nobody can be more precise than that.
The competent persons schemes i have contacted, aren't helpful unless i promise to become a member.

If you or anybody else can shed any more light on it, i would be very grateful.

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Postby speedygonzarlis » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:21 pm

Hi all, I'm a self employed kitchen and bathroom fitter, i'm on both plumbing and electrical competent person schemes with corgi, we all know how strict the electrics side is but at the end of the day all you need to do is a one week course and you can register as a competent person even if your not!!!!!
but the plumbing competent persons scheme is far more involved the minimum requirements for registration with corgi are NVQ level 2 or a technical certificate in plumbing, both of which are a 2 year course on day release!!!! and you come out a fully qualified wet plumber and you can then go straight on to do your gas.
so why is the plumbing side so strict when as you say they don't seem to be making it compulsary as with the part P.
i find it very good i put it into every quote that all my work is fully certified and and it seems to impress customers! and hence clinch the job!!
ring corgi they will be very helpful, they are cheap to register with too, i was going to register with NICEIC for my part P but it was 430 quid for the year, when i contacted corgi it was 175 quid for my part p then a second registration i.e. my plumbing was only 100 quid, so both for 275!!!!
it may become more compulsary soon as now they have brought the house owner pack thingy into every sold property!
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Postby bazza1 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:19 pm

Thanks Speedy,
I have already contacted corgi who weren't very helpful because i would not commit to becoming a member of their competent person scheme.
All i am after is to find out were i can find out what work needs notifying to the local building control when a bathroom has been replaced.

The powers that be, bring in all these different requirements, but don't want to help you when you are looking for information.

Any further help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Barry
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Postby speedygonzarlis » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:50 pm

Hi Bazza
everything you install has to be registered seperately, once you,ve done the installation you have to fill in a certificate there and then for the customer with all the make and serial numbers of the suite fitted, then go online to corgi direct and click on all the items you have installed from a drop down list, for a shower you have to list the tray seperate to the mixer you have to say wether its over or under 12l a minute, how many litres bath holds etc etc, you have to guarantee the installation for 6 years!!!!! and as with everything in this life they charge you for the privalage per job!!!!
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Postby speedygonzarlis » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:00 pm

sorry forgot your main question.......obviously as with gas work as soon as you register online, corgi notify building control with a certificate of the work you have carried out, and also send a copy to your customer who must keep it for the house sale,
i did some work for a solicitor and he knew about it, he told me a story about part p too he said the first question they have to ask upon a sale is have you had any electrical work done since jan 2005, this couple said yes a month or two ago we had an outside light fit, "have you got a part p certificate for it?" no said the couple it was just a handyman who lives down the street who did it, they couldn't sell the house and had to get an indemnity policy against the outside light that cost them knockin on 300quid before they could proceed!!!!! bloody expensive PIR!!!!!
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Postby Rico » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:50 am

Bazza,

As far as I am aware, as long as you are making a like for like swap on a bathroom suite then there is no need to notify anyone on the wet plumbing work.

If you are doing a NEW INSTALLATION ie loft conversion, changing bathroom from 1 room to another or putting a NEW downstairs toilet or en-suite, then this will have to be notified.

As other poster has said any elecy work has to be notifed, either through NICEIC or similar, if not registered with them you will need to notify Building Control to get them to come out and check the wiring, but they charge different amounts depending on how much you are chering the customer for the installation.

Hope this helps.

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Postby bobplum » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:48 pm

hi all
i think thats the key,"like for like" or new installation but can i just mix this a little bit if i take out a bathroom suite and replace it all in different postions is that a new installation?
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Postby Rico » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:48 am

Hi bobplumb,

This still counts as like for like swap as it is currently used as a bathroom.

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Postby Skids » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:46 pm

Joyful reading, having received by ‘water regulations training manual’ from BPEC, I came across the following which may shed some light on the matter, or not?

regards

Skids



Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 1148
The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999

Notification
5. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2), any person who proposes to instal a water fitting in connection with any of the operations listed in the Table below-
(a) shall give notice to the water undertaker that he proposes to begin work;

(b) shall not begin that work without the consent of that undertaker which shall not be withheld unreasonably; and

(c) shall comply with any conditions to which the undertaker's consent is subject.


TABLE
1. The erection of a building or other structure, not being a pond or swimming pool.
2. The extension or alteration of a water system on any premises other than a house.
3. A material change of use of any premises.
4. The installation of-(a) a bath having a capacity, as measured to the centre line of overflow, of more than 230 litres;(b) a bidet with an ascending spray or flexible hose;(c) a single shower unit (which may consist of one or more shower heads within a single unit), not being a drench shower installed for reasons of safety or health, connected directly or indirectly to a supply pipe which is of a type specified by the regulator;(d) a pump or booster drawing more than 12 litres per minute, connected directly or indirectly to a supply pipe;(e) a unit which incorporates reverse osmosis;(f) a water treatment unit which produces a waste water discharge or which requires the use of water for regeneration or cleaning;(g) a reduced pressure zone valve assembly or other mechanical device for protection against a fluid which is in fluid category 4 or 5;(h) a garden watering system unless designed to be operated by hand; or(i) any water system laid outside a building and either less than 750mm or more than 1350mm below ground level.
5. The construction of a pond or swimming pool with a capacity greater than 10,000 litres which is designed to be replenished by automatic means and is to be filled with water supplied by a water undertaker.

(2) This regulation does not apply to the installation by an approved contractor of a water fitting falling within paragraph 2, 4(b) or 4(g) in the Table.

(3) The notice required by paragraph (1) shall include or be accompanied by-
(a) the name and address of the person giving the notice, and (if different) the name and address of the person on whom notice may be served under paragraph (4) below;

(b) a description of the proposed work or material change of use, and

(c) particulars of the location of the premises to which the proposal relates, and the use or intended use of those premises;

(d) except in the case of a fitting falling within paragraph (1)(d)(iii)-(v) or (1)(e) above-
(i) a plan of those parts of the premises to which the proposal relates, and

(ii) a diagram showing the pipework and fitting to be installed; and
(e) where the work is to be carried out by an approved contractor, the name of the contractor.
(4) The water undertaker may withhold consent required under paragraph (1), or grant it subject to conditions, by a notice given before the expiry of the period of ten working days commencing with the day on which notice under that paragraph was given.

(5) If no notice is given by the water undertaker within the period mentioned in paragraph (4), the consent required under paragraph (1) shall be deemed to have been granted unconditionally.

Contractor's certificate
6. - (1) Where a water fitting is installed, altered, connected or disconnected by an approved contractor, the contractor shall upon completion of the work furnish a signed certificate stating whether the water fitting complies with the requirements of these Regulations to the person who commissioned the work.

(2) In the case of a fitting for which notice is required under paragraph 5 above, the contractor shall send a copy of the certificate to the water undertaker.
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Postby Skids » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:25 am

Water Regulations done – building Regs just too big for a general enquiry, however this site that should send you off to sleep quickly if you’re counted all the sheep!

Planningportal.gov.uk will help you and you can get to their site by going to the DIY Doctor projects section and clicking into the projecs on Building regulations or planning permission.

and don’t forget any persons carrying out electrical installations will be expected to comply with Part P (electrical safety) of the Building Regs 2000.

Yes I all here you say it, however the buggers have got you, when you come to selling your pride and joy for vast profit, which you have spent lots of time renovating or refitting with new plumbing and electrics and either the purchaser, agent or their insurers ask for certificates covering work carried out, if you have not got the qualifications that prove that as the installer, you are ‘competent’ in the eyes of the regulations, need I go on.

I am hearing more and more of ‘corgi registered gas installers’ being asked by householders, for copies of ‘boiler installation certificates’ (benchmark) as they have ‘lost’ theirs and need it for the dreaded HIPS. Only to be told ‘cannot reissue certificates’, you will have to have the system re-commissioned and serviced.

Just another small point, check your own house insurance policies and ensure that in the small print it clearly states you are covered when you do your own electrical and plumbing work.




.
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