Pre earth lighting circuit


Postby TDIPower » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:37 pm

Just in the process of re decoration in the hall/landing. On the landing it has a wall light fitted.
Ive got a replacment wall light which has a steel backing (I know techinicaly metal should be earthed but none of the lighting system is earthed and other metal fittings were in the house when i bought it 6yrs ago)do i have to have an earth fitted for metal fittings or is it a case of 'grandfather rites'??

back to the other problem
I made safe the lighting circuit
removed the current wall light to find it wired up with bell wire!!!! (the previous owner was an electrician!!!! he also plasterd connector block straight in the wall when extending sockets and fitted the gas hob ignitor directly to the 32A cooker supply!!!!)
checked the loft and its wired up to the connector block up there.
SO im now thinking I cant be doing with chacing out the wall etc... i might as well fit a ceiling rose.

My questions are....

as a none qualified person can i replace the cable in the wall or replace with ceiling rose??
If i do replace the cable do i have to add an earth to the system

I know i could just do this.... i have access to some nice 1.5mm red and black so could do it as pre 'P'. My dad was an electrician and passed a lot of knowledge on but unfortunatly he passed away last year so I cant call him up anymore :(

Many thanks
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Postby sparx » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:42 pm

Hi no such thing as grandfathers rights in this case , it is still ok to use lighting circuit without earth as long as NO METAL fittings used, ie lights ,switches. If you must use metal fitting then you must earth it from either the main con. unit or another circuit earth,ie from a local socket
regards SPARX
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Postby TDIPower » Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:00 pm

so this has now got me interested.... the screws on the light switches holding them to the back box... not earthed neither is the back box... I actualy popped the landing light switch out earlier.... if the mains had still been on the screw holding the live cable in the switch would have shorted on the back box!!

Now as much as i respect the need for earthed circuits and I am I would say an overly cautious person when it comes to cables power etc (to many years as an electronics engineer then as a sound and lighing engineer for live bands).

As this is my house can I do what i want as long as i put right before i sell?? If i were to fit metal fittings (some already are by me and the previous owner) as long as i replace them all with a plastic rose, drop and fitting im cool???

I am now going to find out what is involved in getting qualified...
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Postby sparx » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:45 pm

Hi as u say it's your house, so when that loose wire touches the unearthed back of the metal sw. plate & a visitor dies i am sure the judge at the court of enquiry will be very sympathetic, particularly if u have any electrical qualifications!!!
Under current regs the back box & screws don't need to be earthed but metal front plate does.
Just do 2381 regs short course, 5day Part P course, 2391 insp. & test & another 'fully qualified' electrician hits the road......
Good luck, take advantage while you can, dunno why I bothered with 5 year apprenticeship really, thank **ck I'm nearing retiring age!!!
regards SPARX
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Postby TDIPower » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:16 am

Sparx i think the whole thing is crazy. My dad had been doing electrcal work all his life but towards the end he too felt the system was stupid... kids walking out from 'school' able to sign off the work he had done. Now much as experiance is a great thing, those who have been qualified should do a refresher now and then (something i think most drivers could do with doing too but thats another area).

The old saying... a little knowledge can do a lot of harm can also be met with a little knowledge can increase caution.

What i plan to do is by any standards far safer than the previous electrician/owner of this place.

Im going to remove the bell wire from the connector box in the loft, twin and earth (earth will be cut as no means of connecting back to an earth point without chasing out the walls) to a celing rose (I spent a long time looking for any fitting that wasnt metal yesterday). As for the bell wire plastered into the wall.... it will be cut back and filled over.

I would love to have an experienced person (not someone who has fallen out of college) check over the electric work i have done pre part P to find out how good i am.

I have the up most respect for those who do the job. I know i could do it but havent got the paper, I have chosen different routes. I spent one day working with Motorheads Monitor engineer a few years back, talking about frequencies he was still in cycles rather than Hz!! What i learnt in one day with him would have taken a massive amount of time on my own.

We lack skilled trades people, we have lots of trades people though.

Thanks for the info on the courses... I'll look into this. Its not that i want to go off doing it as a job.... im getting past the point of wanting to be crawling round under floors, in lofts and chasing out walls. Its more so if i want to replace a light fitting, move it etc, rather than have to get hold of someone who no doubt wouldnt be wanting to work on it at 8pm on a sunday night.


One last point..... as ive just been thinking about the earthing in the loft/lights.
I can get an earth bond from the socket ring on the lower floor up to the loft??
Can i get a bond from the cold water pipe that feeds the header tank.. i know you used to be able to get bonds of cold water pipes some time back but not something ive ever done.
(i can see you rolling your eyes now and muttering for Fecks sake call a pro out)
Im not going to do the above... its just a thought.
I am going to look at the courses.

Thanks
TDIPower
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Postby sparx » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:27 pm

Hi tdipower yes you can take an earth from a socket but not from pipe as unreliable due to someone later on inserting a bit of plackie plumbing etc.
regards SPARX
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