two electric showers


Postby gymark2002 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:07 pm

Can you run two electric showers off the same fuse or do you need two seperate ones?

if you can run them off one fuse do you need both showers to be the same wattage, or can one be 8.5 while the other 10.5 as long as the fuse, cables, and switchs all are for the 10.5

Thanks
gymark2002
Rank: Apprentice
Progress to next rank:
36.8%
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:15 pm

Sponsor

Simply Build It

Postby BLAKEY1963 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:13 am

[quote="gymark2002"]Can you run two electric showers off the same fuse or do you need two seperate ones?

if you can run them off one fuse do you need both showers to be the same wattage, or can one be 8.5 while the other 10.5 as long as the fuse, cables, and switchs all are for the 10.5

Thanks[/quote]

GYMARK2002
NO !!!!. SEPARATE CIRCUITS r needed along with the
calculations for suitability of supplies , diverscity , earthing
ect. Your part p electrcian would b happy 2 advise .

BLAKEY1963
BLAKEY1963
Rank: Site Agent
Progress to next rank:
31.6%
Posts: 658
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:57 pm

Postby singer » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:57 pm

Good advise blakey1963

I'm sorry gymark2002 but its obvious from your question you haven't got a clue about electrics and the consequences of whatever you do could be disastrous or fatal.

Call the experts in mate :wink:
singer
Rank: Ganger
Progress to next rank:
6%
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:47 pm

Postby ericmark » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:07 pm

First reaction to your question was to say no you need two separate circuits. I then wanted to follow up and say why. 433.1 does talk about a small overload of long duration and would stop the use of Shower units slightly bigger than the MCB protecting it. But I was unable to find a regulation that said you can’t do what you suggest.
Maybe I have just missed it the book is very big.
To allow the system to overload on a regular basis would of course be wrong as it would damage the MCB and there could be an issue if it overloads the RCD here we are looking at manufactures instructions as to the current which it can switch and the use of RCBO would be out as a result.
But if we look at the radial socket circuit then we can plug many 13 amp rated units into a 20 amp supply the only difference is we can only jump in increments of 13 amp so first overload stage would be 33 amp and it would trip before we could plug in any more devices, where with a 9.5Kw shower one would need a 50A MCB so adding a 8.5Kw shower at same time would give a 156% load in one foul swoop, but with radial example it would be max of 165% so if we can’t use two showers from one supply one must also consider the whole principle of multiple 13A sockets on a 20A supply!
I would prefer to see a change over switch or relay and of course and star/delta contactor is designed so only one contactor can be energised at one time but with the consideration that using two showers together would draw 78 amps and the whole supply to many houses is only 80 amp running two showers off a single 50A MCB may be better option than risking blowing the main incoming fuse?
If once in a blue moon one forgets and you run two together then the 50A MCB will protect even without a change over contactor or switch and since it is hoped this would be rare may be it is a reasonable option?
And it would need 16mm cable which has in the past been used for whole supply to house. At 57 amp rating it would be 137% loaded and at clipped direct it would not be overloaded.
But you may have problems getting 16mm cable into an 8.5Kw shower! And you will need to convince who ever is signing paper work that this is permitted.
I think if you asked me to do it without a change over relay I would refuse.
I will be interested to see if anyone can find a regulation to say you can’t do it.
As I said to start with goes against the grain but I can’t find a reason why if doing a PIR on a house with this done I could fail it?
I am sure I will be shot down in flames so I would wait and see the flack I get.
Eric
ericmark

Postby ericmark » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:24 am

Come on tell me I'm wrong!
ericmark

Postby glen miller » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:13 pm

Sorry Eric, I can't tell you that you are wrong. Everything about this question indicates that there should be two circuits. However, I do not know of any regulation in BS7671 which prevents two items of fixed equipment being wired to the same circuit. Perhaps this would prove impractical. Your idea of change-over contactors is innovative but you would probably agree that it would be cheaper to install another consumer unit (I am guessing that the lack of a spare 'way' is the reason why this question was posed in the first place). Practical considerations would also rule this out: you mention the size of cable which could easily be 25mm sq.
glen miller
Rank: Labourer
Progress to next rank:
0%
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:54 pm

Postby ericmark » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:47 pm

Thank you glen miller I was wondering if I was missing the point. Glen Miller is missing was a good song from Rock follies! Although change over switches are made these do tend to be commercial in design and I would not want one in my house. Mind you neither would I want an electric shower as even the best only dribble compared with the one I use from the 27Kw hot water boiler. Gas of course. Had I still retained my cistern I could have installed a power shower even better hardly a need to use soap then the dirt is blasted off.
I have been surprised on how rare it is to blow the incoming fuse with induction hobs, electric showers and double ovens etc.
I even cook my Welsh rarebit in the micro wave using grill bit of course but I can't warm up oven grill and do a single slice in 6 min 3 mins per side that micro wave does it in!
ericmark

Postby sparx » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:42 pm

Eric,
hot neon & staircase spring to mind what a great series, & LP.....
didn't think anyone else saw/remembered the 'Little Ladies'
Mac.
sparx
Rank: Project Manager
Posts: 2166
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: The fifth continent.

Postby ericmark » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:55 pm

Have both LP's pity no record player
ericmark

Display posts from previous
Sort by
Order by



  • DIY How to Project Guides

  • DIY how to tutorial projects and guides - Did you know we have a DIY Projects section? Well, if no, then we certainly do! Within this area of our site have literally hundreds of how-to guides and tutorials that cover a huge range of home improvement tasks. Each page also comes with pictures and a video to make completing those jobs even easier!



 


  • Related Topics