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Query about ceiling rose wiring in flat

Postby mc53 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:31 pm

My daughter wants my husband to fit a metal ceiling light in the lounge of her flat, and we obviously want to be sure first of all that proper earthing is in place.

The flats were built circa 1969 and we have assumed that a loop in circuit is in use.

The ceiling rose wiring in the lounge however isn't exactly as expected.
From the hole in the solid ceiling,
there are three green( earthing or live??) wires going to one terminal block;
there are two black wires(presumably neutral looping in and out?) going to another terminal block to which the blue(neutral) wire from the light fitting comes;
there is one red wire ( presumably live from the switch?) going to a third terminal, from which a brown (live) wire goes to the light fitting.

If the three green wires had been red, we would have said they were 2 live wires looping in and out and one live wire going to the switch, with no earth wires being seen.

The ceiling rose in the bedroom is the same.

The ceiling rose in the hall has 3 green wires and 1 red wire coming out of the hole in the ceiling, but only 1 black wire this time.

If we have given you sufficient information, could you advise us what you believe the various coloured wires are, where they are coming from/going to and whether you believe earthing is in place.

If you do not think earthing is in place, is there a simple way of setting it up, or do we need to tell our daughter she has to abandon the metal light fitting or have the lighting circuit rewired.

Hope you can help

Thanks Margaret
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Postby kbrownie » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:38 pm

The greens will be earths (CPC known in the trade) they used be sleeved green but now green and yellow.
Does the configuration not work?
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Postby mc53 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:07 pm

The lights in the three rooms work fine and we have changed the plastic rose and fitting in the bedroom, taking care to mimic the old connections, and this is still working fine.

We did expect the greens to be earths as you say, and can see how in the bedroom and lounge roses, they would be two earths looping in and out and one earth from the switch; this fits in with the DIY Doctor diagram of a ceiling rose.
Similarly the two black neutrals looping in and out fits in with the DIY Doctor diagram.
But we are left with only one red live from the switch;
we would have expected, and again it appears from looking at the DIY Doctor diagram, there should be three further red live wires, two lives looping in and out, and the live to the switch?
We don't seem to have enough wires in the bedroom and lounge roses, which is why we are confused.

The ceiling rose in the hall, with one red and one black wire, might be supplied off a junction box, but why does it have three green earth wires rather than one?

As I say, we have changed the bedroom rose and fitting with no trouble, but as we are to fit metal fittings in the lounge and hall, we wanted to be sure we understood how the wiring was working before going further.

Could I ask for any further comments in light (if you'll pardon the pun) of the above?

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Postby ericmark » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:09 am

The diagrams show the norm. There is no standard and if I want to take the supplies to the switches like they do in USA and then from there to lights there is nothing to say I can't.
Because flats often have concrete floors and ceilings often they are wired in conduit and in singles which means it could use many different methods.
As an electrician I would assume nothing and would test out each wire and sorry that is the only way once any installation leaves the norm method of wiring.
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