i finally sussed it and what you had advised stoneyboy was spot on, however what you and i didnt know was that for some reason the wires we assumed were Live and Switch Live were in fact the wrong way around in the old thermostat which is what put me on the wrong track. The switch Live was actually the Brown wire and the Perm Live was the grey - i assume this is down to the cowboy electrician that origiginally wired in the boiler
anyway its working now - thanks for all the help
btw - anyone else doing this the switch live goes into pin3/NO
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